Mageth

Fundamentalism is actually a response to "Modernism", and particularly to the impact on and influence of science/Reason on religions over the past 500 years. Fundamentalism is actually a "modern" phenomenon. Read Karen Armstrong's The Battle For God.

There are Fundamentalists, for sure, but there are still plenty of people that really believe that are not Fundamentalists and certainly are not mentally ill.

Lenina

As a Christian who has had mental health problems, I resent the suggestion that I'm a Christian *because* I have had a mental health problem; that being a Christian is a less logical response to observed phenomenon than atheism; or that a genuine belief in God is all that rare.

For a start, having a mental illness is not at all identical to being out of touch with reality. The mentally ill are not necessarily "insane" and perhaps 1 in 6 people are mentally ill at some time in their life.

A depressive may have a very unrealistic attitude towards their own worth, but be perfectly aware of all other facts of reality. A person with Obsessive-Compulsive disorder might be perfectly aware of the fact that their behaviour is not "rational" (ie continual checking of locks, or hand-washing) but feel unable to control that behaviour. A schizophrenic or bipolar person may have terrible difficult with reality when ill, but controlled on medication, they are as sane as anyone. It's too easy, IMHO, to dismiss another person's beliefs as "insane", simply because they respond differently to yourself when looking at the same evidence.

I'm a Christian because deep down, atheism doesn't make any gut sense to me. It "feels" wrong (as in incorrect). I look around me at the world (I was originally a biologist) and I just feel that it can't be a coincidence, that the world is just some happy accident. It seems to me that there must be some over-riding intelligence behind the universe, that this all makes sense in some obscure way that maybe humans are not capable of understanding. I can't explain *why* I think this: I just do.

I don't think most of the so-called Christianity around me matches up with my own views of what the religion should be, and you don't find many Christians like me in churches (generally because we tend to disagree with everyone and won't play their petty power games), but "Christian" is the best label I've been able to come up with so far. I can respect *your* lack of faith (my sister and my dad are both atheists). All I ask is that you return the favour.

Lenina

Incidentally, in Britain one of the few denominations that are growing are the Metropolitan Community Churches, which were largely started by gay and transgender Christians ejected from other denominations, but now caters to a broad range of people. More and more members seem to be straight, liberal Christians who believe Christianity should be inclusive and open-minded, not narrow and reactionary.

BigJim

Lenina, your other points I agree with but this one stuck out. I honestly believe that atheism is the logical response. Contradictions in the bible, and conflicts between what the bible says and what I was taught as a Christian are illogical. Science is logical. Your reasons for being Christian are emotional, not logical. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that, or that emotional responses are bad or a sign of mental disturbance, but it is not logical.

Jehanne

Just as the modern KKK has no direct connection to the KKK of the post-Civil War era, modern Christian fundamentalism is a reaction to modernism. However, before modernism, there was just fundamentalism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_Ussher

Mageth

Define what you mean by "just fundamentalism". :huh:

And how would you defend the claim that, before modernism, there was "just fundamentalism".

(I fail to see the significance of the Ussher article).

And what does this have to do with your assertion that "No one in the Western World, except for a handful of religious fanatics and mentally ill individuals, really believes in God, an afterlife, or supernatural/paranormal agents or events"?

Lenina

I didn't really answer that one. The reasons I gave in my post were emotional, true, but I actually know quite a bit of theology and do not find contradictions in the Bible. What I do find is a heck of a lot of assumptions, mistranslations etc. coloured by the knowledge and opinions of the Bible translators. What I was taught as a Christian is irrelevant - just because my teachers were ignorant doesn't mean that Christianity is wrong. And I've yet to discover anything in science that undermines my faith.

Logical doesn't just mean scientific method, or course. I'm talking philosophically logical. You cannot prove a negative. I noticed there was a thread on this site about proving the existence of God but it can't be done - centuries of thinkers have gone down that road, and it still boils down to personal opinion. We have 3 dimensional (4 at a push), limited brains, struggling to understand eternity. We can't even prove String Theory, how can we hope to prove God? So, we either say that we believe there is no God (we can't prove it, but it's not an illogical belief), that we believe there is a God (just as likely to be true, logically speaking) or accept that it is impossible to know either way.

Besides, you only assumed my belief in God was an emotional one. It is not - it just is, a conviction that I cannot shake. It isn't even wishful thinking.

BigJim

These aren't necessarily contradictions between bible passages, but they contradict with what we know and understand. They are illogical:

• Adam mas made from dust.
• Eve was made from Adam's rib.
• God placed them in a Garden, along with a "tree of knowledge", and told them not to eat from said tree. -- Why, as a test?
• There was a talking serpent in the Garden that convinced Eve to eat from that tree.
• Where did the land of Nod come from? -- Gen 4:16
• Noah, was 600 years old when he built a gigantic ark.
• He put 2 of every kind of animal on that ark (and 7 of the clean kinds), and they all survived happily for a year.

Do you:
A: Accept these passages in the bible as 100% true?
B: Assume these parts are myth and metaphor?
C: Other???

Is your answer Logical or Emotional?

So which is the "correct" version of Christianity? Is the bible correct, or one of the many sects all of which disagree with the others on some point.


Sounds emotional to me. You haven't presented me with any Logical evidence of why I should accept your version of Christianity. You've only presented emotional reasons why you believe.

Jehanne

The belief that the Bible is inerrant, that is, without error.

Mageth

The belief in "Biblical Inerrancy" is an attribute of modern Christian Fundamentalism that developed in response to the rise and influence of Science/Reason.