Sheshbazzar

My calendar is not as any that you are now familiar with, Time, Measure, Pattern, and Cycle are a sacred territory of my faith.
As in the disciplines of basic mathematics and geometry, I faithfully hold certain inviolable constants. The ancient word "shana" rendered as "year", was not, and is not a year as it is measured or accounted under the Julian or Gregorian systems, thus if I were to give you a timeline it would not at all agree with those systems or with your longer term perceptions of time.
I have written before in this forum concerning "Time and Measure".
To be accurate regarding large measures, it is needful to adhere to absolute standards regarding the smallest of measures. (if we cannot be faithful in that which is least, in vain do we strive for that which is greater)
Let me posit you this question, think long and hard, how many hours, minutes and seconds are in a month?

funinspace

Depends on the month :Cheeky: Sorry, I wasn't watching with bated breath for your previous post on "Time and Measure" during the continuum I've traveled. A funny thing happened in the last 50 years or so…micro-electronics has made translations between measuring systems pretty easy. The earths rotation around the sun is relatively constant, at least for the purposes of measuring human events. So whatever system you follow, I'm sure it could be easily converted to match that odd abbreviator "BCE" I used to allow us all to use the same system with the common understanding of the word "year". And one can get lost in the pine needles and miss the forest...

Sheshbazzar

Now that you have thought so long and hard on the matter, Are you certain this was true circa 2200-2400 BCE? I ask, because I wonder how you perceive the "timeline" (days, months, and years) from the verses in Genesis 5:3-28, 5:32, 7:4-24, 8:3-14, 11:10-32 ?
Yahweh commanded perfect equity in measure, Lev. 19:35-36, Deut. 25:13-16, Prov. 11:1, 16:11, 20:10
You profess that your ethic and system is superior to Yahweh's, and to His demand for absolute equity that is expressed in these decrees;
I have weighed your measures on the balances, and behold they are not equal, I stretched the measuring line straight upon your paths, and behold they are crooked, I have laid the plummet against your walls and behold they are not upright; If you think micro-electronics will make your conversion easier then you really ought to get to it, for the years are shorter than you think.

funinspace

I made no professions on ethic systems. I made no claims that the Deluge was during this time, I was just presenting a common Christian fundementalist view. Personally I find it on par with the Gilgamesh tale. Since my deconversion many moons ago, I have found it interesting to see how others perceive this grand miracle of their faith. Most people are clueless on history and even their own faith system, so they have nothing intellegent to say. I was simply curious to where you placed the Deluge in the human timeline (in a manner that is meaningful to most everyone). If you have no desire to explain your POV, that's your choice. I have no interest in endless banter or obsfucation…so whatever.

John A. Broussard

It is rather surprising that something as significant as water covering the entire earth can't be given even an approximate date by those who believe it happened.

Strange, indeed, are the unsupported beliefs of believers.

Sheshbazzar

Jumping to the wrong conclusions boys, I have never supported "the common Christian fundamentalist view" of "water covering the entire earth", or that "inspired writings" (inclusive of ALL the sacred literature that has ever been written, not limited to Judeo-Christian) is to be taken as, or be understood as a literal historical reporting.
Sacred writings are NOT old newspapers, and they were never intended to be understood in that way.
The "you" I was employing to is the collective "you", IIDB is noteworthy for its collective scorn for the ethics of Yahweh and His prophets; thus you (collectively) ought to be capable of better judgment.
The "human timeline" what an interesting phrase to describe your enslavement to a system fabricated by tyrannical governments and the Church.
Hear the drum! How captives march to the beat set by the Church, in every home and business the icon of their power is displayed, honored and obeyed.
Boom, Boom, Boom! Today and tomorrow you must work! Boom, Boom, Boom!
after tomorrow WE will give you a Holiday! Boom, Boom, Boom!
Yes, no doubt you all use the same system with the common understanding of the word "year". and to what voice could you at all hearken, or hear, while marching to the beat of that drum?
March on then, march on, for you do have an appointment to meet, and a date to keep, on that day you WILL confront Reality, and will know perfectly in what ways you were misled, and how you erred in measures small and great, and were not upright in judgment nor justice.

funinspace

Being one of the boys…did you know that you are an odd duck? Here was my first post to you:
Notice how I asked if you considered this the time frame? Notice how I asked you how you perceive the above verses? I imposed as little as possible as I asked questions. I made some assumptions since you were so busily quibbling over a couple of minor verses in defense of the details of the Deluge tale. Now you just happen to mention you don't even take the tale literally :banghead:

Ah…minor details like separate paragraphs, or putting it before your quote of me, might have helped…since you are so keen on details and precision. Pretty comical "collective scorn"... How many generations did Yahweh hold a "collective grudge" against <fill in the blank>? Oh, maybe that's not literal either…Hasta la nunca!

John A. Broussard

From the above I would gather that some parts of sacred writings are incorrect (or false, or confused, or whatever) while others are eternal verities.

Do you have some rule whereby these two elements of sacred writings can be distinguished from each other?

Thank you.

Sheshbazzar

Notice how I did not give you a time frame? but rather pointed out that time was not measured as you are now accustomed.
No actual time frame exists for events that never happened.
Actually you did NOT ask how I perceived the verses;
Your specific question was;
so the question was how I ..."perceive the TIMELINE from the verses", Not how I interpreted the verses or their intent.
Then rather obviously you should have framed your query so as to actually pose the questions that you wanted me to answer.
Yes, I maintain that the the tale deserves careful preservation without alteration, and this being a BIBLE CRITICISM & HISTORY forum, that the OP was in error in presenting these "couple of minor verses" as being "in direct contradiction".
I do not consider it a "quibble" to be directly addressing the subject of the original post, and defending a proper understanding of Biblical passages on a forum that ostensibly exists to investigate the origins of, and promote accurate understanding of Biblical passages.
Hey, I don't take Shakespeare's tales to be literal either, but I expect them to be preserved intact, as valuable artifacts of our human heritage, and if a passage from one was posted on a forum dedicated to the Bards works and his wording was being badly misinterpreted and misunderstood, it would likewise be expected that a corrective post would be forthcoming.

Beyond these considerations, there are still those matters of Time and judgment (Ecc. 8:5) and of our integrity in our investigations into what was, and of our involvements in what now is;
Brushing off any genuine consideration of how time was conceived of and accounted within the texts because it differs from the common modern day status quo does not do justice to Biblical scholarship, what you choose to ignore is that which will eventually bite you in the arse.
Perhaps the fantastic things predicted in the Bible will never actually happen,
and no messiah will ever actually rule over Israel and the nations, but that is not the consideration here.
If you do not deal honestly with the subject of time as it was understood by the writers of the Book, a day will most certainly come when men will be made aware of your evasion, Perhaps it will be your own grandchildren that take up this charge against you, saying; "Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit."
We have all inherited something, What will you be leaving as your legacy, and how well will it speak of your character?

Johnny Skeptic

Geology best settles the issue of the global flood, and it is quite difficult to find a non-fundamentalist Christian geologist anywhere in the world who believes that there was a global flood such as the one that is described in the Bible.