Vorkosigan

Still defending that Ossuary That Won't Die

German chemist defends Ossuary

• What about the examination and reports by Tel Aviv University Professor Yuval Goren and his colleague Avner Ayalon of the Geological Survey of Israel on behalf of the Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA), concluding without doubt that the inscription is a modern forgery?
  
  Professor Krumbein directly addresses their reports:
  
  "The conclusions noted in the reports by Goren, Ayalon and their colleagues, originate from a series of errors, biases, mistaken premises, use of inappropriate methodology, mistaken geochemistry, defective error control, reliance on unconfirmed data, disregard of information (such as the cleaning and preservation actions performed [on the ossuary], and the use of a comparative isotope methodology despite the fact that the [James ossuary] inscription fail[s] to meet the cumulative prerequisite conditions for such tests and comparisons." Each charge is documented in detail in Krumbein's report."

Vorkosigan

Toto

James Tabor sent out an email on this:

Kosh

C'Mon Vork, you KNOW how this works!

Make a claim (all the christians hear)

- Claim is refuted (some of the christians hear it)

Re-make the claim (all the christians hear)

- Claim is refuted (fewer of the christians hear it)

Re-make the claim (all the chrisitians hear)

- Claim is refuted (nobody paying attention now)

Time goes by:

"Archeaology supports the Bible!"

Vorkosigan

it's just never going to die. *sigh*

Haran

Why can't skeptics be skeptical of of the original skeptics?

I am still fascinated by those who seem to want to poison the well and destroy the "James Ossuary" rather than find out more about it like James Tabor. That to me is the more skeptical position.

The "James Ossuary" is being tentatively included in some scholarly books now just as Morton Smith's "Secret Mark" has been tentatively included in many.

Vorkosigan

Haran, I'd love to find out more about it. But unfortuately Golan hasn't told us how he made it yet. When he does, lots of people are going to look awful. And a lot of us who knew all along it was a fake are going to laugh our heads off.

Vorkosigan

pharoah

From the article, it appears that the German chemist is a hired hack for Golan's defense team. That alone doesn't invalidate his conclusions, but it does show that he has a very strong motive to help his client in any way possible.

Haran

Or vice versa...

Did you check the credentials of the geologist? I'd say he's leagues ahead of those whose examinations we've read till this point.

Are you dismissing this analysis? If so, why?

Are you still upholding Goren's analysis? If so, why?

Is there anyone in this forum with any geological credentials who can speak to this analysis?

Haran

Can you show that this geologist is any more of a "hack" than Goren?

It didn't read as if this geologist sought them out but that he was chosen for his expertise. I wouldn't call someone with those credentials a "hack" (read the .pdf), but I don't know all that much about geology. Again, can anyone more knowledgeable in this area speak to these claims? Do they have as much validity as those of Goren, less, or more? Also, if there is anyone here in the field of geology, do they recognize this scholar's name and works in the field?

Vorkosigan

Actually, this german guy is no hack, but one of the world's leading authorities in the field. But notice this little comment in his presentation:

• disregard of information (such as the cleaning and preservation actions performed [on the ossuary],

Anyone have a problem with that statement?

Also, Haran, methodology is always vulnerable because no methodology is perfect. But in this case I trust the IAA over the German guy, because they have dealt with the actual artifact -- the German expert hasn't it -- and because of all the other information I have.

Michael