Freethought & Rationalism Archive

darstec · 07-31-2010, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charles

I was hoping to get an answer to my question? Are you saying that Jesus's redemption was a myth?

No more so than Gandalf's resurrection or Frodo's redemption by Gollum.

stephan huller · 07-31-2010, 11:53 PM

But that's such a narrow definition. Seriously - did Bill Clinton have sexual relations with that woman? No, he didn't in the strictest (traditional) sense of the concept. In the same way, 'resurrection' - can be interpreted symbolically as we see in Marcus Julius Agrippa's statement about some sort of 'release' that his master Caligula secured for him around the time of Christ's reported resurrection (at least if someone tries to figure out the date of Passover from a Sunday, March 25th Resurrection):

Quote:

You released me when I was bound in chains and iron. Who is there who is ignorant of this? But do not, after having done so, O emperor! bind me in bonds of still greater bitterness: for the chains from which you released me surrounded a part of my body, but those which I am now anticipating are the chains of the soul, which are likely to oppress it wholly and in every part; you abated from me a fear of death, continually suspended over my head; you received me when I was almost dead through fear; you raised me up as it were from the dead [Embassy to Gaius 324, 325]

I am not arguing that I believe in the magic. I am just saying that the principle of magic is to get people to divert their eyes with one hand while the other works miracles. It wasn't Jesus who rose from the dead in the tomb it was Christ. The distinction is an important one.

I am not the first person to notice this ...

aa5874 · 07-31-2010, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charles

I was hoping to get an answer to my question? Are you saying that Jesus's redemption was a myth?

What is a REAL redemption? One can only BELIEVE that they have been redeemed.

But, I guess people of antiquity said ZEUS or some other UNKNOWN being had some kind of redemptive power.

How come Jesus is different to Zeus?

Zeus was a MYTH who had the POWER to redeem people in the Roman Empire once upon a time. Jesus too. He was one of the GREATEST MYTH in the Roman Empire, the Son of A Ghost (HOLY).

stephan huller · 08-01-2010, 09:59 AM

The most important difference between the Christian system and the pagan systems of redemption was that Christianity was (at least theoretically) a closed system hostile to outside influence. The most early Christians said 'this is our system of redemption' we don't want to have any part in your rites and rituals. They inherited this 'hatred of the human race' from the Jews.

mountainman · 08-02-2010, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darstec

Remember the first casualty of war is truth. That applies to religious idealogical wars too.

We must remember that Constantine was at war.
And that his Christianity was imposed by the sword.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Simple. I think that the gospel about an event (the Passion) which concluded on Sunday, March 25th (as the Alexandrian tradition still believes) of a particular year (37 CE)

What about the passion of Julius Caesar in the Ides of March?
Surely this was the far more popular passion story in the empire.

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08-01-2010, 09:59 AM	#24
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	The most important difference between the Christian system and the pagan systems of redemption was that Christianity was (at least theoretically) a closed system hostile to outside influence. The most early Christians said 'this is our system of redemption' we don't want to have any part in your rites and rituals. They inherited this 'hatred of the human race' from the Jews.

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