Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Magus55 · 10-21-2003, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Weltall
Magus, try to read this very slowly. A ship ~450 feet long made exclusively out of wood will sink. It doesn't matter who fucking builds it, the hull won't be able to sustain its integrity NO MATTER HOW YOU PUT IT TOGETHER. Got it? Now, that 'city on water' you're talking about, haven't heard of it but I'm willing to bet that they would be using much stronger materials than wood so it's ok that it's larger than your Ark.

Ever built a ship made out of wood 450 feet long? Nope? Didn't think so.

Magus55 · 10-21-2003, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tod
Really? Well I read Psalms 104 twice, and I didn't find the verses that said YHWH raised any mountains or lowered any valleys. I see nothing at all that refers to "establish[ing] borders that waters don't pass to ever again flood the earth."

What specific verses say anything like that? There is clearly references to the flood myth when it speaks of "the waters overtopping the mountains," and "waters...flowing over mountains, down valleys..." (vs. 6-8), but there isn't even the slightest implication of mountains raising, after the flood or otherwise. Where you get the business about "etablished borders that waters don't pass to ever again flood the earth," from this chapter, I have no idea. Please be more specific with your references.

Psalms 104: 8 and 9

Biff the unclean · 10-21-2003, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Psalms 104: 8 and 9

104:6
Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
104:8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
104:9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

LOL you can't even get your own fairy tale straight

Calzaer · 10-21-2003, 10:07 PM

But how are we supposed to know that part's literal, while the "moon causes the seasons" part isn't?

Tod · 10-21-2003, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Psalms 104: 8 and 9

How does one interpret "waters...flowing over mountains" to mean that mountains are raising?

Biff the unclean · 10-21-2003, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rlogan
1) We establish the material properties of gopher wood.

There really is a wood called gopher wood. It's very hard and will polish up to a nice sheen. But it is brittle. You can't bend it to the curves of a boat's hull without it snapping. It isn't flexible enough even on the straight parts of a hull to absorb the necessary bending in swells let alone in a storm.
Traditionally it is used for coffins

Jeremy Pallant · 10-21-2003, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Weltall
Magus, try to read this very slowly. A ship ~450 feet long made exclusively out of wood will sink. It doesn't matter who fucking builds it, the hull won't be able to sustain its integrity NO MATTER HOW YOU PUT IT TOGETHER. Got it? Now, that 'city on water' you're talking about, haven't heard of it but I'm willing to bet that they would be using much stronger materials than wood so it's ok that it's larger than your Ark.

If we can put the antagonism aside for a moment, there are historical precedents for very large wooden ships. For example, the vessels commanded by Cheng Ho.

While there is considerable confusion about how big his ships were, it seems to be generally accepted that they were extremely big by the standards of the time, the largest being possibly 400 feet long, which is a conservative figure. The normal length quoted for his flagship is in excess of that.

rlogan · 10-21-2003, 11:03 PM

Well, I'll be - there are other references to this 400 foot Chinese ship - for example:

http://www.chinapage.com/zhenghe.html

But as I dig into some of the structural engineering literature I see there is this phenomenon called "hogging" where the middle is pushed upwards from the bouyancy (sp?). How the Chinese solved this has not been determined. I'm hesitant without researching this further.

The larger ship that appears to be as big as 517 feet is not adequately described as "wooden". Probably clay, huh?

Biff - I've seen some ambiguous and speculative literature on "gopher" wood. Some of it suggested that it wasn't even a type of wood but rather a composite (veneer overlay). Was there something you saw that you felt was definitive?

Weltall · 10-21-2003, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Ever built a ship made out of wood 450 feet long? Nope? Didn't think so.

Ever seen the Flood happen? Didn't think so. The point I'm trying to get at here is that it doesn't matter if I personally witnessed/did something. If the Ark won't float, it won't float.

Magus55 · 10-21-2003, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Weltall
Ever seen the Flood happen? Didn't think so. The point I'm trying to get at here is that it doesn't matter if I personally witnessed/did something. If the Ark won't float, it won't float.

But since its impossible for us to know whether it could float or not, why make assumptions that it automatically couldn't when you've never actually seen a 450 foot boat on water?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

10-21-2003, 10:07 PM	#64
Calzaer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,762	But how are we supposed to know that part's literal, while the "moon causes the seasons" part isn't?

10-21-2003, 11:03 PM	#68
rlogan Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Alaska Posts: 9,159	Well, I'll be - there are other references to this 400 foot Chinese ship - for example: http://www.chinapage.com/zhenghe.html But as I dig into some of the structural engineering literature I see there is this phenomenon called "hogging" where the middle is pushed upwards from the bouyancy (sp?). How the Chinese solved this has not been determined. I'm hesitant without researching this further. The larger ship that appears to be as big as 517 feet is not adequately described as "wooden". Probably clay, huh? Biff - I've seen some ambiguous and speculative literature on "gopher" wood. Some of it suggested that it wasn't even a type of wood but rather a composite (veneer overlay). Was there something you saw that you felt was definitive?

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.