MrMacSon

Wasn't he first of all a god for the Gentiles?

Still, a construct.

spin

It's an inane question that falls over its own presuppositions.

FFS, start with the evidence which points to a very much lower class cult spread throughout Greek speaking communities around the Mediterranean (including Rome). A Roman god indeed?!

The mythicist position fails through lack of evidence. Sound familiar?

spin

Or Paul was responsible for the name of his figure who represents and brings salvation. Jesus = Yah saves.

Sheshbazzar

Well Paul does say that he heard this name spoken directly from heaven, -or in his head (Acts 26:15, 22:8, 9:5 _ 2Cr 12:2)
Anyone that was familiar with the Hebrew OT texts could easily derive that this should or would be the messiahs name.

Wouldn't take any actual vision, just being familiar with Hebrew, or someone who had pointed out these OT texts,
and voila! a 'I had a vision!' moment.

MrMacSon

So the story goes. Perhaps there never was a 'Paul', or a Peter, or an Adam, or a Mohammed, or any other theologically-proposed character?

outhouse

the movement failed quickly in judaism to a number of factors, before it became a gentile/roman shall I say hellenistic version of judaism and spread through the roman empire that paul traveled. The lower class you speak of failed within judaism due to its leaders [the real apostles] being illiterate and only relied on oral tradition.

Not getting the word out like paul did focusing on capitol's and city centers killed the real apostles movement. the movement wasnt well accepted in judaism to begin with. this low class movement would have went no where had paul not taken it.

Paul took the religion, recorded his own hellenistic version of this deity and hit the road with it preaching to romans and trying to steal god-fearers from synagogues.

a pine tree grew from a small nut, as did the jesus movement into a jewish roman deity.

you want evidence, I call saul to the stand for starting the movement in a way that worked.




I had a thought about paul persecuting the sect, what he spends 3 years chasing down the sect leaders. The movement was so small, a good headhunter could get all the apostles of thi ssmall movement in that time, and then what?? all of a sudden after the real apostles are dead, a roman version is born through saul, saying pay your taxes to romans.


I dont put stock in my mythology of saul, but it beats what mythers excuse's are.


but you didnt answer the question, why a peasant jew with unique parables??

outhouse

gentiles = non jew, that pretty much left mostly romans or roman citizens.



Not originally he was not for gentiles at all. he was strickly a jewish deity within the real apostles

aa5874

I cannot assume any other story for the Pauline character except what is written.

We have the Canon and the Pauline character was the LAST of the Apostles. The Pauline writer even claimed OVER 500 people was visited by the resurrected Jesus BEFORE him.

1 Cor. 15Over 500 people, the Apostles, James, Cephas and the Twelve knew that according to the Scriptures Jesus died for our sins, was buried and resurrected BEFORE Paul based on the very Pauline writer.

If people want to claim Paul was first to preach Jesus then they MUST, MUST provide the source and NOT their imagination.

outhouse

yeshua was a common name as mike, I like philo's refference better.

spin

The wingnut response.

Perhaps there never was a 'Josephus' or a 'Lucian of Samosata' or 'Petronius' or whatever you like.