Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Duvduv · 12-06-2011, 10:34 AM

I am increasingly convinced that there were NO epistles identified with "Paul" during the mid 2nd century, Galatians or otherwise, and all the stories about Marcion were based on propaganda and 3rd or 4th century clergy asserting their emerging ideology, which based on the original Nicaean Creed would appear not to have happened until late in the 4th century....

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakejonesiv

Dear aa5874
Do you believe Jesus existed? You must, because Tertullian said he did...

Well, you Believe Tertullian. You actually Believe writings attributed to Tertullian for your evidence of Marcion.

I use the written statements of Tertullian to show he was a Fiction writer or made a lot of mistakes.

Where and when did Marcion find the Epistle to the Galatians? Did Tertullian tell you? How do you know "Against Marcion" is authentic? How do you know what Marcion wrote?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakejonesiv

....The only consistent thing I can see in your messages is that you will argue for anything in an abrasive manner that will disrupt the normal flow of conversation.

Jake

I will not tolerate your unsubstantiated claims about Marcion. You BELIEVE Tertullian but still REFUSE to accept the very same author when he ARGUED that the Pauline writings were written 100 years BEFORE Marcion.

It is you who have a double standard.

I have pointed out to you that there are apologetic sources like Justin Martyr and Hippolytus that CONTRADICT Tertullian's "Against Marcion's" and that it is either ridiculous fiction or Full of Mistakes.

Again, based on Justin Martyr and Hippolytus, Tertullian's claim that Marcion used Galatians is not credible.

stephan huller · 12-06-2011, 10:49 AM

I think all comes down to the question of what Irenaeus means in AH 3.15. Did the heretics here mean they didn't acknowledge his authority or his name Paul. Similarly for Adv Marc 4:1 and 5:1. It has been suggested the community in question are the Encratites. Does this include Justin who never cites Paul? If so how did he write many works against Marcion according to Photius?

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12-06-2011, 10:49 AM	#72
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	I think all comes down to the question of what Irenaeus means in AH 3.15. Did the heretics here mean they didn't acknowledge his authority or his name Paul. Similarly for Adv Marc 4:1 and 5:1. It has been suggested the community in question are the Encratites. Does this include Justin who never cites Paul? If so how did he write many works against Marcion according to Photius?

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