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Old 12-25-2006, 12:03 PM   #11
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Can we get back on topic here? As far as I care, all the replies so far can be deleted by the mods.
I think there was at least part of an answer in the above: Josephus is unlikely to mention Jesus in a work where he wants to put the Jews in a good light. There is an interesting Catch-22-like circumstance here: the reason why the TF is seen as (at least in part) an interpolation--which is then adduced to show that Josephus had not heard of Jesus--at the same time gives us a reason why Josephus might not have mentioned Jesus even if he had heard of him!

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Old 12-26-2006, 04:16 PM   #12
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http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/josephus.html

According to Early Jewish Writings, Against Apion is a defense of Judaism and an opposition to "Antisemitism". Isn't this the most likely place that Josephus would mention Jesus or Christianity if he knew of them?

http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext01/agaap10.txt

Instead, we get no mention at all. What is the scholarly discussion on this topic?

Perhaps you could elaborate on why you think this work is one in which Josephus would be likely to mention Christianity. The Apology does two things: attempts to establish the antiquity and origin of the Jews, and to respond to various allegations against the Jews by Apion and other detractors. So Josephus quarrels with them, often about the stupidest things, like whether the neighborhood of Alexandria in which the Jews settled was high rent or not.

I don't see why he would discuss Christianity in this context, especially since many in the early church considered themselves still to be Jews, and had no hostility toward Judaism.
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Old 12-26-2006, 04:38 PM   #13
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Perhaps you could elaborate on why you think this work is one in which Josephus would be likely to mention Christianity. The Apology does two things: attempts to establish the antiquity and origin of the Jews, and to respond to various allegations against the Jews by Apion and other detractors. So Josephus quarrels with them, often about the stupidest things, like whether the neighborhood of Alexandria in which the Jews settled was high rent or not.

I don't see why he would discuss Christianity in this context, especially since many in the early church considered themselves still to be Jews, and had no hostility toward Judaism.
Well, by the time this was written the Gospels were supposedly out, and I would argue that they are anti-Jewish and hostile towards Judaism, so I figured that he might mention it there. Otherwise, I figured that might discuss it because of the claimed prophecies, etc.

I have read most of it, and I agree that it doesn't exactly cross paths with a potential discussion of Christianity, but ti could have.

I asked because I was wondering what scholars had to say about it.
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Old 12-26-2006, 04:49 PM   #14
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Well, by the time this was written the Gospels were supposedly out, and I would argue that they are anti-Jewish and hostile towards Judaism, so I figured that he might mention it there. Otherwise, I figured that might discuss it because of the claimed prophecies, etc.

I have read most of it, and I agree that it doesn't exactly cross paths with a potential discussion of Christianity, but ti could have.

I asked because I was wondering what scholars had to say about it.
Given the technology of writing of the time, and the status of Christians, I don't think anybody expects Josephus to have actually read any Christian texts extant at the time. It's unlikely that many copies of the gospels or the epistles existed at the time. If they had, we might actually have surviving copies today.

Josephus knowledge of Christianity would more likely come from word of mouth and the politics of the imperial court, not from his studies.

But back to the point, I don't see how you can view the gospels as antisemitic in the same sense Apion's writings were. The gospels raise theologyical disagreements with the various strains of Judaism of the time (and since there were so many, that's nothing new, since they all disagreed among themselves). Apion simply didn't like Jews and attacked them much in the way Nazi propagandists did. The two categories are simply light years apart. And again, I think at the time Christians were more or less deemed a Jewish sect and were swept up in the anti-semitism of the time (like the destruction of Jerusalem). Any insult Apion hurled at the Jews applied pretty much to the Christians of the time.
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