penumbra

Rather telling that Rev Tim hasn't come back to respond, isn't it? <removed>

:devil3:

JohNeo

Reverend,

I think you are right in the sense that we continually (collectively) fall short of the 10 Commandments. That's what we get for imagining perfection. There is no such thing as perfect. Along the same lines, we dream up God as the perfect being, everything we would like to be.

I suppose finally waiting till your son gives up and then tying his shoes for him is symbolic of God sending his only-begotten son Jesus down from Heaven

JohNeo

Rev. Timothy G. Muse

Alas! One who gets the point! (tho, I recognize this was said in jest)

In Matt 5:48, Jesus says: "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly father is perfect." But we cannot do that ourselves, we fall short of the glory of God and the standards of his righteousness.

But the good news is found in Christ (Rom 1:17) "For in the gospel a righteousness FROM GOD is revealed..." Again, we read "But now a righteousness from God, APART FROM LAW, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." Paul refers to this righteousness when casting aside everything earthly he had been trusting in and counting on, says: "But whatever was to my profit I now conider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpssing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, NOT HAVING A RIGHTEOUSNESS OF MY OWN THAT COMES FROM THE LAW, BUT THAT WHICH IS THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST - the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith."

This is explained further in 2 Cor 5:21 "God made him who had no sin (perfect) to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." It is through Christ's federal headship, the principle of substition, and a divine transfer that man can attain righteousness. Jesus Christ (who is perfect and did not deserve to die, but live) took our sin (and died in our place); and offered his righteousness (perfection) to God on our behalf. Though we are not perfect ourselves, through faith and union with Christ, justification (or a righteousness) may be achieved which is acceptable before God. That's why the Scripture says: "Sacrifice and offering I did not desire, but a body I prepared for him." And again, not to the works of man, but to his Son, God said: "This is my Son, in whom I am well pleased."

King Rat

I got the point long ago: You should buy your son slippers.

Mageth

Rev. Muse:

With all due respect, I appreciate your concern, but most of us here are already quite familiar with your Christian doctrine and with the Bible. Heck, I, like many others here, are former Christians. I learned the basics of what you said above as a lad in Sunday School, and had my understanding of it honed over the subsequent years.

But that's all it is to me: Christian doctrine. I lack belief in God, I see no reason to believe in your God or any other God, nor do I see any reason to believe in your Christian doctrine - why should I, since I lack belief in God? The doctrine you presented to us, the essentials of the Gospel message, are no more true to me than Inca myths, the Bible is no more true to me than the Hindu Vedas or the Koran.

This part, in particular, is absurd to me:

Well, duh, I'm a human; God (according to your stories) created me this way. I did not choose to be born a human. For a God to judge me as unworthy of the "standards of his righteousness" because I "fall short" when he created me this way, when I was, without choice, born a human and thus "fell short" by default on the day I was conceived, for God to demand and expect perfection of me when I am not God and had no choice in the matter (not having chosen to be born human, and thus imperfect by God's standards, though he being "perfect" created me), is absurd.

WWSD

I could never figure out how to tie my shoe as a kid either. People would show me over and over again but I never seemed to get it and they'd become frustrated with me.
I bet a lot of people thought I was a slow kid because of this. Eventually I sat down and learned the damn knot on my own. I'm not a visual learner, I have to do something myself to learn it, which is why I had to tie the knot by myself.

animus

I don't get it... God's working at Payless now?

Biff the unclean

For He so loved the world that He gave His only begotten cross trainer...

mongrel

I didn't have that problem, I wore these:

WWSD

Guess that means you never learned God's lesson then. Oh well, in Hell you don't need shoes anyway.