hjalti

How about making a list of arguments for forgery?

1. Tacitus contradicts himself calling Pilate a procurator
2. No early church father mentions the passage
3. Nero's troops wouldn't be able to distinguish between Christians and other Jews.
4. Silence on the matter in his other works
5. The bad style of the passage: Per imPerante P P P P ....
6....????

fta

Criticism of the "Bracciolini Theory" may be found here.

Darrell J. Doughty argues here that the reference to Christians in the Annals may be an interpolation.

See also Arthur Drews' Witnesses to the Historicity of Jesus and W.B. Smith's Ecce Deus (both 1912) for more arguments against the authenticity of the "Christus" passage. (These two books aren't online yet.)

John A. Broussard

Let's assume for the moment that the passage in Tacitus is NOT an interpolation.

So what?

Tacitus could simply be mistaken.

And, even if he isn't, it proves nothing except that some people styling themselves as Christians were around in Rome several decades prior to Tacitus writing about them.

What in the world does that prove?

Doug Shaver

That at the time the Annals were written, apparently during the early second century, some Christians believed that the founder of their religion had been executed by Pontius Pilate.

diana

As Broussard already mentioned, a mention of a "Christus" is not a link to a person named Jesus anymore than a mention of a "Pharoah" is a mention of Ramses II.

I'm not even sure what "Christus" means. Is it the same as saying "Christ"? Or was it considered an actual name?

d

PS, I don't know if it's an argument for forgery, per se, but I'd say that a historical inclusion of the claims of a group of worshippers concerning the origin of their religion--that is, the group of Christians claimed to worship a man named Christus who'd been killed by the "procurator" Pilate--is not a statement of history in any sense other than that being their claim. Consider what Mormons claim began their faith.

Diogenes the Cynic

It's a Latinization of Christos. It's used in the Tacitus passage pretty much as a name.

Roger Pearse

I'm afraid that Ross -- who published anonymously if I recall correctly -- was a crank, even in his own day.

The key proof that Poggio Bracciolini did not forge the Annals of Tacitus is that the surviving medieval manuscript in which this work reaches us was written centuries before Poggio was born. We have that manuscript. It was written at Monte Cassino in the 11th century. Modern paleographical tests even specify a particular abbacy. Yet paleography was not to be invented until the 18th century, and the humanists were notoriously rotten at it.

This was well known in Ross' day, and some time ago, out of curiosity, I had a look at how he dealt with this (fairly crushing) objection. His text at that point was a mess of conspiracy theory, which made it clear that he did not understand paleography as a discipline.

So I'm sorry to tell you it's complete rot. I wish whoever scanned it had held their hand.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

k_smith123

Doesn't anyone think it odd that Tacitus and his contemporary Suetonius Tranquillus had names that suggest "silence"? Is this an indication of the "correctness of names" as described by Plato in Cratylus?

hjalti

Regarding the praefectus/procurator argument. Richard Carrier says:
And a note from him in this article says:If we assume that Pilate was both a procurator and a praefectus, wouldn't it still be strange for Tacitus to call him a procurator and say that he executed someone since procurators didn't have that power? Wouldn't the reader be surprised? Would the reader know that Pilate was actually also a praefectus?
Of course it could have been stated in some of the lost volumes of his works, but it's like saying after 100 years: "George W. Bush, a national guard, supported capital punishment and executed 152 people."

Does this make sense or am I missing something?

jgibson000

Could you tell me please the basis on which this alleged understanding of the meaning of the names Tacitus and Suetonious stands?

What is correct about "silence", even if this is what the names of these Roman historians actually mean?

Jeffrey Gibson