MadOphelia

Thanks-that is what I meant.

brighid

It is not any part of Wicca that I am familiar. Although a Wiccan can include anything in ritual he or she sees fit this seems to be beyond what is even normal among Wicca. I have not come across any "raising the dead" spells in the years I have been a part of Wicca (although I am a secular pagan), but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Samhain (sow-en aka Halloween) is the holiday/festival/Sabbat that Wiccans and other neo-pagans revere the dead, those who have past recently and those who have been long since gone.

I think this is likely silly teenagers who know little or nothing about Wicca simply doing something macabe and calling it Wicca. Robbing a grave is something I think most Wiccans would find to be both sacreligious and enormously disrespectful, not to mention potentially dangerous in the kharmic sense (the threefold law of reaping what one sows).

Furthermore, the dead cannot be "raised". They have returned to Mother Earth from whence they came and they should be left to renew the cycles of birth, life, death and rebirth.

Brighid

brighid

This is an excellent analogy, and as both a martial artist and a secular pagan I appreciate this wonderful comparison. In both I get annoyed with "dabblers", but allow them their freedom as I believe even half-hearted exploration is part and parcel for the journey every individual undertakes in this life. If they dabble and find it's not for them, or the fad wears off than any field of interest is both better off with and without those dabblers. Often the dabblers bring a greater understanding and acceptance to something new or misunderstood. On the other hand, popular media and society in general often fixates upon the "stereotypical" newbie/fluffbunny and group all other serious practitioners into the same "silly" category.

B

newtype_alpha

I'd rather have them focus on the fluffies, now that I think about it. As long as the fundies don't take Wiccans seriously, we're safely under the radar and they can't do something weird like try to keep us from getting married or something

brighid

Quite true! Plus, the average person wouldn't know who is or who isn't a Wiccan simply by looking at said person. It's too bad that the media is often ignorant and responsible for perpetuating inaccurate stereotypes. I have to give kudos to the majority of newspapers in my area because they have actually done accurate pieces on Wicca (usually around Halloween), although on sad side-effect was the widespread coverage caused the annual Halloween Ball to be canceled because of threats of violence So much for freedom of religion and Christian love.

Brighid

SquareC

I have been a practicing Wiccan for 18 years and never once come across any spell or ritual for this purpose or any other practitioner who mentioned any such spell or ritual.

:notworthy

You might wish to get your facts straight before condemning so widely. Wicca was not "made up from whole cloth," it was an attempt to recreate ancient forms of worship, with the addition of some newer elements. That the attempt cannot be successful doesn't make it invalid and there are numerous historical elements to Wicca.

I think this is the best analogy I've heard to date for the difference between fluffies and serious Wiccans. With your permission, I'd like to use that in the future. :thumbs:

nermal

Bad analogies. Both art and martial arts have tangible, qualitative outcomes. If you do either poorly, it is obvious. If you're not disciplined in either, you won't do either well, and (here's the important part) the end result, product if you will, will be inferior.

Wicca has no such qualitative end product. If I play at a ceremony, or diligently study and practice and perform the ceremony exactly as was arbitrarily ordained 50 years ago, the end result is the same. I pack up my trappings and put them away when I'm done. If I'm a fluffy, and am convinced that I did the ceremony well enough, those internal benefits I feel (we used to call that self delusion) are as real as those the "serious" Wiccan feels.

Unless, of course, you're claiming that if I do a love ceremony exactly so, then Gweneth Paltrow will fall in love with me. If that's the claim, we're on a whole new level, requiring evidence, and so on.

Ed

Shven

Stealing the ashes of the deceased for a ritual is many things (stupid, misguided and malevolent among them) but there's nothing fluffy about it.

Shven

Sorry, but you're still wrong. Making happy thoughts is no where near as effective at altering your subconscious as say, ecstatic dancing or self flagellation (both serious Wiccan practises), or for that matter, taking mind altering substances, burying yourself in the ground, or just meditating for 12 hours straight.

nermal

Maybe "whole cloth" was a bit of an overstatement, but it was a small bit. Religious ceremonies aren't baking ingredients. Borrowing a bit of this, and a bit of that, completely out of context, pantry style, and simply making up what you don't know, isn't really any better than doing it whole cloth. In fact, it's worse. It denies the gravity of those religions you've borrowed from.

If you can use a bit of Hinduism in your own religion, what is Hinduism? Nothing to be taken seriously, to be sure. If you can invent a bit of Druidism to fit with the Hinduism, what is either?

There are historical elements to Superman comics. That doesn't mean that if I invent Superman worship, my disciples are justified in criticizing those who don't practice Superman worship "just so."

Ed