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From the link I posted

outhouse

NO amount of evidence will change their minds.

They discount enough evidence as it is.

outhouse

The link is complete basura. Its not worth the time it takes to close it once open. Sort of like this thread.

Toto

I'm pretty sure that blog belongs to the poster here - Ralph Ellis = ralfellis.

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Ralph Ellis

I guess the next question is - Who invented Tefillin

PhilosopherJay

Hi Outhouse,

I think, in general, mythicists are rather open minded and the tiny-tinniest bit of evidence, a smidgen of evidence, a scintilla of evidence, a thimble-full of evidence, a strand of hair's worth of evidence, or even a nano-bit of evidence would convince them.

Until somebody produces such evidence, I think they will go with the file-cabinet full of evidence, barrels of evidence, truckloads full of evidence, warehouses full of evidence, and mountains of evidence they now have that Jesus was/is a mythological character.

Warmly,

Jay Raskin

Chili

Good point. They walked away from the body of Christ 2000 years ago and still do not see it now or they would not be here.

So it really is a no-brainer that you wrote, but smack right on, and is why I say that the -ism does not belong because it does not equal faith in the unseen that is believed, which in the end the seer can see on his own (and I do not mean visionary here or a mountaintop event).

So now mythicism again is looking for the evidence they cannot see.

ralfellis

And what is your problem with Israelites being Egyptians? You are reacting as though you actually believe the classical interpretation of these events. Are you all secret believers?

As it happens, the Israelites came out of Egypt. Joseph was High Priest of Heliopolis and Vizier (Prime Minister) of all Egypt. Moses was Egypt's most senior army commander, who led the campaigns down into Nubia (and married the Nubian queen, Tharbis).

Sorry, but you don't get to these high positions within the Egyptian government without speaking Egyptian and believing all of the Egyptian pantheon of gods. You would have to be 99% Egyptianised.


In addition, the Israelite Exodus was the same as the Hyksos Exodus.
In both traditions:

They were called shepherds.
They wore earrings and curly sidelocks of hair.
They were circumcised.
There was darkness and storms for three days (Tempest Stele)
There was an ashfall, with the air thick enough to kill people (Thera)
There was a battle (civil war) with the Egyptians.
Tribute of gold, cloth and oil was given to make the shepherds leave (Tempest Stele)
They left from Pi Rammase (Avaris)
Some 500,000 shepherds went on the Exodus.
There was a tsunami (Thera).
They trashed Jericho.
They went to Jerusalem (Manetho)


Are you really saying that the Hyksos Exodus and the Israelite Exodus were not the same event? Can you really not see the obvious equivalences??





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Ralf, I was simply commenting that you started the thread on a rather obtuse note before you launched into your main riff.

Personally I find your stuff interesting, and was surprised at the vehemence of some reactions.

For some reason, there aren't many Egypto-Israelites around here.

Grog

This is not how I would define mythicism. For one, Santa Claus is understood by all except the youngest of children to be a deliberate myth. Fun for the youngsters. My understanding of early Christian "mythicism" is that Christian beliefs and relationship to "Jesus Christ" were pretty much similar at their origins as they are now. In other words, Jesus Christ is thought to be a real entity living in heaven who acts as an intercessor with the Father, an understandable, approachable, and understanding emanation of an unknowable deity. One, who it is thought, performed an act of self-sacrifice as saving grace in some distant past.