Freethought & Rationalism Archive

makerowner · 01-25-2008, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedShark92

As to Jesus, the answer to the second question in regards to him is a definite "no" as well. However, if you ask was there a real person who inspired the stories, I would say that a nuanced answer would be a very weak "maybe". In this non-nuanced poll I answered "no". It seems to me that in order for there to have been a real person who inspired Paul, he still would have had to have done some notable things, even if it was only building up a sizable following during his life and it seems like there isn't much real evidence even for that. It seems more likely that Paul made the whole thing up.

I don't think Paul making it up works, because both Acts and the epistles indicate that there was conflict between him and Jewish Christians in Jerusalem. If he was making it up, why would he invent a group of Christians with a better connection to Jesus (ie. they had actually met him) who disagreed with him?

wordy · 01-25-2008, 09:28 AM

I voted no cause if there existed somebody that the story of Jesus Christ is based on that guy was not the Son of God so he was only the source of the legend and not the Jesus of the story.
is it not funny that Christians are very angry on an Atheist like Richard Dawkins and call him arrogant and he actually think Jesus existed.

itsamysteryhuh · 01-25-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

For those "yes" and those "no" voters, how many of you would be definite about

Robin_Hood? There's a lot of legendary and then fictional material about Robin Hood, but did he, or did he not, exist? Is the evidence for Jesus any better or worse than his?

Did the stories of Robin Hood also contain things like, say, prophecies?

In other words, who cares if Robin Hood existed or not? It is completely irrelevant in this thread (irrelevant to the existence of Jesus Chist)? In addition, I think most would agree that the Bible is a much more complex book than any stories written about Robin Hood.

itsamysteryhuh · 01-25-2008, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Lots of Jesus's have existed, I have even been friends with a couple of 'em.
Heck, they even told me that my name is "Jesus"!
Oh, you mean that "Jesus"? that old religious fairy-tale one?

There must have been a thousand or more Jews with that name at that time,

A thousand or more with the name Jesus Christ? :huh:

Solitary Man · 01-25-2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsamysteryhuh

Did the stories of Robin Hood also contain things like, say, prophecies?

In other words, who cares if Robin Hood existed or not? It is completely irrelevant in this thread (irrelevant to the existence of Jesus Chist)? In addition, I think most would agree that the Bible is a much more complex book than any stories written about Robin Hood.

I disagree, since "The Bible" is merely a collection of books.

Solitary Man · 01-25-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wordy

I voted no cause if there existed somebody that the story of Jesus Christ is based on that guy was not the Son of God so he was only the source of the legend and not the Jesus of the story.
is it not funny that Christians are very angry on an Atheist like Richard Dawkins and call him arrogant and he actually think Jesus existed.

Emphasis mine. If you think that there is someone who existed that Jesus Christ is based on, then why did you vote no? I've seen a couple of replies like this, people uninformed by the discussion and so vote what they think is something else entirely. Poor poll choice, Abe. This is what happens when you remove nuance.

Gorit Maqueda · 01-25-2008, 12:27 PM

First I read Matthew, Aquina and others and believed Jesus existed: He was God.

Then I read Russel, Marx and others and believed Jesus existed, but he was not God, as the latter didn't exist.

Then I read Doherty, Paul and others and believed Jesus didn't exist: he was Paul's creation.

Then I read Detering, Price and others and believed Paul didn't exist: he was Marcion's creature.

Then I stopped reading and I realized I have not been aware of the existence of Marcion until I was 43 or so. Perhaps he didn't exist too.

I think, ergo I exist. But the more I think, the more other people cease to exist.

I voted maybe. After all, even spin, Jay, Wallack, Pearse, Toto, Malachi151 and the rest could just be Internet's creation, but who knows?

No Robots · 01-25-2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorit Maqueda

First I read Matthew, Aquina and others and believed Jesus existed: He was God.

Then I read Russel, Marx and others and believed Jesus existed, but he was not God, as the latter didn't exist.

Then I read Doherty, Paul and others and believed Jesus didn't exist: he was Paul's creation.

Then I read Detering, Price and others and believed Paul didn't exist: he was Marcion's creature.

Then I stopped reading and I realized I have not been aware of the existence of Marcion until I was 43 or so. Perhaps he didn't exist too.

Sweet.

01-25-2008, 12:54 PM

Hi all,

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Julian is convinced Jesus is a fiction.

No, he isn't.
Julian speaks of Jesus as a real person.

He just thinks the claims, the stories, the beliefs of Christians are fiction.

Iasion

Sheshbazzar · 01-25-2008, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsamysteryhuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Lots of Jesus's have existed, I have even been friends with a couple of 'em.
Heck, they even told me that my name is "Jesus"!
Oh, you mean that "Jesus"? that old religious fairy-tale one?

There must have been a thousand or more Jews with that name at that time,

A thousand or more with the name Jesus Christ? :huh:

Actully, if you carefully study Hebrew, and the Greek texts of the New Testement you may be suprised to discover that the name "Jesus Christ" is nowhere to be found.
It is an English "convention" contracts the original discriptive phrase ommitting the "the" that is still to be found in the Greek

View Poll Results: Was Jesus ever an actual human being?
Yes	45	20.93%
No	78	36.28%
Maybe	84	39.07%
Other	8	3.72%
Voters: 215. You may not vote on this poll

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01-25-2008, 09:28 AM	#32
wordy Contributor Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden, Europe Posts: 12,091	I voted no cause if there existed somebody that the story of Jesus Christ is based on that guy was not the Son of God so he was only the source of the legend and not the Jesus of the story. is it not funny that Christians are very angry on an Atheist like Richard Dawkins and call him arrogant and he actually think Jesus existed.

01-25-2008, 12:27 PM	#37
Gorit Maqueda Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Valdebernardo Posts: 73	First I read Matthew, Aquina and others and believed Jesus existed: He was God. Then I read Russel, Marx and others and believed Jesus existed, but he was not God, as the latter didn't exist. Then I read Doherty, Paul and others and believed Jesus didn't exist: he was Paul's creation. Then I read Detering, Price and others and believed Paul didn't exist: he was Marcion's creature. Then I stopped reading and I realized I have not been aware of the existence of Marcion until I was 43 or so. Perhaps he didn't exist too. I think, ergo I exist. But the more I think, the more other people cease to exist. I voted maybe. After all, even spin, Jay, Wallack, Pearse, Toto, Malachi151 and the rest could just be Internet's creation, but who knows?

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