Evoken

Nope, stupidity would.

Pseudointellectual

what, pray tell, are these "subtle and substantial ways" of harming that the "blindly faithful" employ?

moreso, can anyone please define the concept of "blind faith" for me? because from what i can glean from Chili's post it seems to me that to be "faithfully blind" is to have no reason for your actions aside from the rationale provided to you by your belief system. is this the right definition of "blind faith"?

and please. sniping and bickering is for children. try to keep it at a minimum here.

Buffman

IMHO, No. (I have yet to discover any verifiable evidence for anything supernatural.)

mrmoderate,

As for the killing and dying? Everything physical perishes. To the faithful this is not the end of the existance of the soul that inhabited that body but rather the beginning of a new spiritual existance. Is the physical world our spiritual birthplace? Have we existed spiritually before being born into our current physixal world? These are questions that we do not yet have answers for.

(I found your questions thoughtful and stimulating.) Wouldn't that depend on whether Energy is self-aware? If incorporeal spirits exist, how many do you suppose there are? Do all living things have a spirit? Why would they only exist in humans? Why do we care? Why don't we concentrate on the world we live in rather than one about which we can only guess...based exclusively on faith?

Kassiana

But if faith can get us into heaven where we can be God, or in hell where we can only be touched by God from a distance,
--Nope. Faith can't get us into hell because hell doesn't exist. Faith can make us believe in hell, of course, as limited and vengeful and unforgiving humans. But it's IMO only an idea that the petty, vengeful, unloving humans have, not an objective reality.

TheFisherman

There must be proof! I saw on ESPN over the weekend some bass fisherman thanking god for him catching a fish. Since the other competitors weren't catching his fish, god must have been there helping him catch that fish.

But, he was not helping the Cubs beat the Brewers yesterday! He was all worn out helping that guy catch a fish!

Godless Wonder

Well, one example from my life, my ex-girlfriend broke up with me, not because she wanted to, but because she thought she had to because of her religion. She broke her own heart, and mine. I consider that real harm caused by blind faith. And yes, it was blind faith, we discussed ti quite a lot, and it was indeed blind faith -- belief without evidence with conscious rejection of reason and evidence which contradicted her beliefs. She admitted to that. She's basically brainwashed to discriminate against non-Christiians. As are 95% , (by my informal measurements) of the women who live around here. I consider that to be an actively harmful consequence of faith.

Another example: Bush's faith based initiatives incur an opportunity cost, at the very least, in that that money could probably be better spent elsewhere, and it allows federal funding of organizations which discriminate against nonbelievers in their employment practices.

Another example: Look at how many faithful people treat gay people based on their "revealed morality." They don't often kill them, but they sure do treat them like shit a lot of the time. Look at the whole same-sex marriage thing, for example. Many if not most who are opposed to it are opposed to it based on faith that it goes against their god's will.

Another example: Look at what's going on in the middle east, with Israel and the surrounding countries. They're all squabbling like children over a patch of dust they call the "Holy Land." for reasons which have no observable basis in reality and are ultimately a matter of blind faith.

Another example: Look at how Jehovah's Witnesses treat their own family members who leave the JWs. (type "exjw" into google)

Look at Scientology's position wrt psychology, perhaps not deadly, but not good.

Look at how faithful muslim women are treated by faithful muslim men.

etc., etc. etc.

It is abundantly clear to me that faith is not harmless.

Chili

That's good for you and I hope you keep it that way but many ex Christians will spend the rest of their life trying to restore peace in their own mind. They have been 'touched' and some have 'seen the light' and this alone will put them on a lifelong pursuit of the truth that never will be theirs for it was not the will of God that they were touched at that time.

You are a free agent Kassiana and I urge you to keep it that way for your own good and your families best interest. Also if ever you see an evangelist come your way I would advise you to either kick him in the nuts or flee from him as fast as you can (or both).

Those suicide bombers, for example, were driven to do the things they did and this surely was not by the living God but by its imposter who should be kicked in the nuts by people like you who are still sane.

Buffman

Hmmmmmm? Which "all good living God" is that... Allah (PBUH)?

Chili

I have no problems with Allah but if Allah is real he will have an imposter and he is the one that drives the suicide bombers.

No this is not a cop-out but if there is light in Allah's domein it will be surrounded by darkness and that is where lucifer becomes the angel of light that illuminates them.

Buffman

Allah(PBUH) "is" real to approximately 1.2 billion people.

Please appreciate and understand just how many times I have encountered your Hegelian dialectic, supernatural, superficial (although obviously personally satisfying), apologetic/mysticism. When I do, I like to recommend that the individual take the time to read up on the Hermetic Kabbalah.

http://www.digital-brilliance.com/kab/

I do this in an attempt to avoid the time consuming, and too often frustrating, back and forth flow of the good guy--bad guy, black hat vs. white hat, good vs evil, moral--immoral, all powerful--not all powerful, all good--not all good, all knowing--not all knowing truth drilling exercises that always wind up in a dry hole well... but with hope unabated. IMO, it is the "hope" that is the true measure of what has been labeled the human spirit. Hope for a better tomorrow...for everyone...but especially ourselves and those we love. Again, IMO, it is only with the practical/pragmatic application of accurate knowledge that humanity transforms hope into reality. Thus, when religions and faith beliefs siphon that hope off into drilling for a make believe supernatural afterlife, they are actually stealing and prostituting our real spirituality.