Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sky kunde · 10-31-2005, 05:17 AM

Please, where i can find in the BHAGAVADGITA the account where krishna was hidden to not be slaughtered by a king? (like the bible says about Jesus).
I have seen this been stated a lot of times but I have never got a good source online to check it. Thanks in advance.

Sorry for the bad english, im brasilian.

GakuseiDon · 10-31-2005, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky kunde

Please, where i can find in the BHAGAVADGITA the account where krishna was hidden to not be slaughtered by a king? (like the bible says about Jesus). I had seen this issue being pointed out in a great numbers of debates but I have never got a good source online to check it. Thanks in advance.

Sorry for the bad english, im brasilian.

I'm not sure where it can be found in the original text, but the myth itself is here. (Note that there are several differences to the Jesus myth):

Quote:

Kansa [King Herod equivalent] had a demoness named Putana as his slave. He prevailed upon her to kill all male children born in Mathura that year. Putana killed nine of them, either by strangling them or breast-feeding them with poisoned milk. She became the most hated woman in Mathura. Her own family shunned her. Even her own new born son died as soon as she held him in her arms. But Kansa was restless. He was somehow certain that Devaki's eighth son [Krishna] was still alive.

It did not take Kansa long to figure out that Krishna was his dreaded nephew since his birth coincided with that of Devaki's child. He summoned the demoness Putana and instructed her to go to Gokul and kill the infant Krishna. Putana refused to do his bidding because she was really repentant for killing nine infants. Kansa threatened to put her family to death before her very eyes. Then Putana had no choice. She reluctantly agreed to do this one last time.

Putana was a gigantic and hideous hag. There was no way that she could gain access to Krishna in her true form, so she transformed herself into a comely and svelte village maiden. Then she liberally applied poison to her nipples and set out to Gokul.

She could easily locate Nand's house because not only was it the largest but also it was decorated for the celebrations. Krishna was lying in a crib outside the house. She requested Yashoda to allow her to play with the infant for some time. Such requests had become commonplace and Yashoda readily consented. Putana swung the baby in her cradled arms and tossed him lightly in the air and stared at his radiant face, waiting for Yashoda to go indoors. At last the moment she was waiting for arrived. As soon as Yashoda went in to attend to some household chore, Putana slithered out with Krishna.

The mishevious innocence of Krishna recalled the painful death of her son. Her maternal instincts came to fore and milk began to flow from her breasts, wetting her blouse completely. She hid behind a clump of bushes and took Krishna to her breast. Krishna was the incarnation of the omniscient Vishnu and was expecting this. He sucked so hard that Putana screamed in pain. She reverted to her hideous form and flew in the air with Krishna, hoping to dislodge him and kill him by flinging him down from a height. But Krishna clung on to her breast and sucked her life out through her nipple. The lifeless form of the huge demoness crashed down to the earth.

sky kunde · 10-31-2005, 06:16 AM

I've found it: http://srimadbhagavatam.com/10/en

countjulian · 10-31-2005, 07:27 AM

The links between Krishna and Jesus are, IMHO, not very strong. Indian ideas had some representativs in the Greco-Roman world, but were they really strong enough to influence Christian origins? I think not. Best to stick with Greco-Roman deities that would have been well known to the Christians at the time. See my Jesus, the Copy cat Messiah for more.

sky kunde · 10-31-2005, 09:09 AM

Thanks, countjulian.

Chris Weimer · 10-31-2005, 03:26 PM

Actually, don't most scholars actually date the Krishna myth to around 400's CE? So perhaps the story of Christ did make it that far. It's not that implausible. :huh:

andrewcriddle · 11-01-2005, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

Actually, don't most scholars actually date the Krishna myth to around 400's CE? So perhaps the story of Christ did make it that far. It's not that implausible. :huh:

The Krishna myth developed.

The form in the Mahabharata, as expounded in passages like the Bhagavad Gita, is probably around the very late 1st millennium BCE, and even if it is a little later it is unlikely to have been influenced by Christianity.

However the stories about the childhood of Krishna, which are the subject of this thread, are found in the much later Puranas, composed after the middle of the 1st millenium CE and Christian influence is a real possibility.

Andrew Criddle

Chris Weimer · 11-01-2005, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

The Krishna myth developed.

The form in the Mahabharata, as expounded in passages like the Bhagavad Gita, is probably around the very late 1st millennium BCE, and even if it is a little later it is unlikely to have been influenced by Christianity.

However the stories about the childhood of Krishna, which are the subject of this thread, are found in the much later Puranas, composed after the middle of the 1st millenium CE and Christian influence is a real possibility.

Andrew Criddle

Yes, this is what I was referring to. In particular, the myth of the slaughter of the children is not found in the Bhagavad Gita, and I seriously doubt any influence by Christianity on that work at all.

Dharma · 11-02-2005, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by countjulian

The links between Krishna and Jesus are, IMHO, not very strong. Indian ideas had some representativs in the Greco-Roman world, but were they really strong enough to influence Christian origins? I think not. Best to stick with Greco-Roman deities that would have been well known to the Christians at the time. See my Jesus, the Copy cat Messiah for more.

actually the Christ myth is closer to the story of the Buddha. Even the story of Revelation (the dude on the white horse) is in fact a Buddhist story -- Christians even made Buddha into a saint -- Barlaam and Joshaphat. It shows the level of influence Buddhism had in the formation of early Christianity.

There's Christ's temptations in the desert -- similar to Buddha's temptations.

The Buddha's miraculous birth from the side of his mother.

Wise men announce Buddha's future as a great teacher or king.

Buddha denounces evil priests, like Christ does later.

Buddha saves prostitutes with a heart of gold, later Mary Magdalena.

Boddhisatvas sacrifice themselves for humanity, Christ sacrifices himself on a cross.

Many Hindu myths also passed about as they followed many of Buddhists, which is why you have many similarities.

Dharma · 11-02-2005, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

The Krishna myth developed.

The form in the Mahabharata, as expounded in passages like the Bhagavad Gita, is probably around the very late 1st millennium BCE, and even if it is a little later it is unlikely to have been influenced by Christianity.

However the stories about the childhood of Krishna, which are the subject of this thread, are found in the much later Puranas, composed after the middle of the 1st millenium CE and Christian influence is a real possibility.

Andrew Criddle

I doubt it. Most of the Christ myths were borrowed from Buddhist missionaries.

There is also greater detail on who this evil king was, it was Krishna's own uncle.

I believe I also gave a link which shows that there is more archeological evidence of Krishna being an actual king (his famed Island of Dwarka) has been found off the coast of India, where it was by legends in the Mahabharat.

Also, the story of Krishna is far more in detail than that of Christ -- who has like 20 YEARS missing from his life. Krishna also wrestles King Kamsa killing him, after which Krishna actually becomes a REAL king, unlike Christ who was rejected.

It seems highly unlikely someone is going to think that aspect of the Christ story is so fantastic and detailed in Christianity that the Krishna people just had to borrow it... :huh:

10-31-2005, 05:17 AM	#1
sky kunde Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brazil Posts: 26	I Little Help About Krishna Account Please, where i can find in the BHAGAVADGITA the account where krishna was hidden to not be slaughtered by a king? (like the bible says about Jesus). I have seen this been stated a lot of times but I have never got a good source online to check it. Thanks in advance. Sorry for the bad english, im brasilian.

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10-31-2005, 06:16 AM	#3
sky kunde Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brazil Posts: 26	I've found it: http://srimadbhagavatam.com/10/en

10-31-2005, 07:27 AM	#4
countjulian Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the torture chambers of Pinochet's Chile Posts: 2,112	The links between Krishna and Jesus are, IMHO, not very strong. Indian ideas had some representativs in the Greco-Roman world, but were they really strong enough to influence Christian origins? I think not. Best to stick with Greco-Roman deities that would have been well known to the Christians at the time. See my Jesus, the Copy cat Messiah for more.

10-31-2005, 09:09 AM	#5
sky kunde Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brazil Posts: 26	Thanks, countjulian.

10-31-2005, 03:26 PM	#6
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	Actually, don't most scholars actually date the Krishna myth to around 400's CE? So perhaps the story of Christ did make it that far. It's not that implausible. :huh:

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