Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jeffrey Gibson · 04-02-2013, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

They are the same. That they usually appear to be different is a question of vantage point. In a mingling with the one, in a "oneness", such as Plotinus experienced four times, there is no distinction, there's only one. But away from such a union, we perceive the one through the logos.

Lecture here.

Please give me texts from Plotinus where Plotinus says the Logos is the same as "the One".

Jeffrey

Plotinus does not say that. And I didn't say that he did.

I said they are the same, but not without qualification, a critical qualification.

The Logos is a view of the One from a lower reality. There is always a relationship, a context, as these things exist as much(or more) internally in the psyche as externally.

Quote:

It is the soul that desires to know. Therefore the soul must examine it's own nature in order to know itself...

I put it the way I did to emphasize the ubiquity of the One, without which there is no reality, a point often lost, especially among those who attempt to read Platonic metaphysics as a flow chart or a set of stereo instructions.

Quote:

We call the Intelligence the image of the One

In discussing it now, we can only speak of it's image, because to be in union with the One itself there is nothing but the One.

Are these quotes from Plotinus? If so, will you instance them, please.

And where within them is the word logos used?

Jeffrey

Horatio Parker · 04-02-2013, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

Plotinus does not say that. And I didn't say that he did.

I said they are the same, but not without qualification, a critical qualification.

The Logos is a view of the One from a lower reality. There is always a relationship, a context, as these things exist as much(or more) internally in the psyche as externally.

I put it the way I did to emphasize the ubiquity of the One, without which there is no reality, a point often lost, especially among those who attempt to read Platonic metaphysics as a flow chart or a set of stereo instructions.

In discussing it now, we can only speak of it's image, because to be in union with the One itself there is nothing but the One.

Are these quotes from Plotinus? If so, will you instance them, please.

And where within them is the word logos used?

Jeffrey

The quotes are from the Three Primal Hypostases. (V, 1 [10])

Plotinus here uses "intelligence" instead in place of logos.

Jeffrey Gibson · 04-02-2013, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

Plotinus does not say that. And I didn't say that he did.

I said they are the same, but not without qualification, a critical qualification.

The Logos is a view of the One from a lower reality. There is always a relationship, a context, as these things exist as much(or more) internally in the psyche as externally.

I put it the way I did to emphasize the ubiquity of the One, without which there is no reality, a point often lost, especially among those who attempt to read Platonic metaphysics as a flow chart or a set of stereo instructions.

In discussing it now, we can only speak of it's image, because to be in union with the One itself there is nothing but the One.

Are these quotes from Plotinus? If so, will you instance them, please.

And where within them is the word logos used?

Jeffrey

The quotes are from the Three Primal Hypostases. (V, 1 [10])

Plotinus here uses "intelligence" instead in place of logos.

Plotinus uses an English word?? And how do you know he use this word "in place of" logos. Did he use logos before he used "intellgence"? Does he say that they are equivalent and that he is going to use the one as the equivalent of the other?

I take it that you are not reading Plotinus in Greek.What

Jeffrey

Horatio Parker · 04-02-2013, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

The quotes are from the Three Primal Hypostases. (V, 1 [10])

Plotinus here uses "intelligence" instead in place of logos.

Plotinus uses an English word??

Jeffrey

By all means, enlighten me as to Plotinus' Greek.

Jeffrey Gibson · 04-03-2013, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

The quotes are from the Three Primal Hypostases. (V, 1 [10])

Plotinus here uses "intelligence" instead in place of logos.

Plotinus uses an English word??

Jeffrey

By all means, enlighten me as to Plotinus' Greek.

So you don't know what the Greek word is?

Jeffrey

Horatio Parker · 04-03-2013, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

By all means, enlighten me as to Plotinus' Greek.

So you don't know what the Greek word is?

Jeffrey

I would guess its Nous, but no, I don't.

Jeffrey Gibson · 04-03-2013, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

By all means, enlighten me as to Plotinus' Greek.

So you don't know what the Greek word is?

Jeffrey

I would guess its Nous, but no, I don't.

I see. Should I also take it that you have no real idea where Plotinus used Logos either, let alone as an equivalent for your guess?

Jeffrey

Horatio Parker · 04-03-2013, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

I would guess its Nous, but no, I don't.

I see. Should I also take it that you have no real idea where Plotinus used Logos either, let alone as an equivalent for your guess?

Jeffrey

My studies were in English.

I've never investigated the extent that Plotinus uses logos as opposed to intelligence, no.

Do you have a point?

Jeffrey Gibson · 04-03-2013, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

I would guess its Nous, but no, I don't.

I see. Should I also take it that you have no real idea where Plotinus used Logos either, let alone as an equivalent for your guess?

Jeffrey

My studies were in English.

I've never investigated the extent that Plotinus uses logos as opposed to intelligence, no.

Do you have a point?

Yes. That when it comes to your assertions about what the Logos is in Plotinus, there is good reason to think that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Jeffrey

Horatio Parker · 04-03-2013, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horatio Parker

My studies were in English.

I've never investigated the extent that Plotinus uses logos as opposed to intelligence, no.

Do you have a point?

Yes. That when it comes to your assertions about what the Logos is in Plotinus, there is good reason to think that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Jeffrey

You mean nit picking grounds to make an accusation. Whatever. Since you're in no position to judge, you'll have to settle for your word games.

I am grateful, though, this thread spurred me to re-read some of the texts and review a couple of lectures. Plotinus, at least, is always worthwhile.

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