Switch89

He doesn't. I was pointing this out as a potential problem for his views on spiritual resurrection.

Solo

The only evidence that we have for the empty tomb are the gospels. Whether what was asserted in Mark and adorned/elaborated on by the other gospel is on the whole a historical account is another issue.

I agree with Richard Carrier (actually derived similar conclusions independently from him) that the empty tomb originated as legend. It is ironic that Jesus, who is said to have been a native of Galilee where tombs of sages were traditionally venerated, would have been buried in a tomb by a stranger, but the legendary construct is explainable in terms of the fulfilled prophecy of Isaiah (53:9).

I think the body of Jesus was lost (though I would not insist on the drastic fate assigned to it by J.D.Crossan). The embarrassment would have been 'rationalized' by assertions that he ascended like Elijah (2 Kings 2:11) whose body was searched for (for 3 days, 2Ki 2:16-17) but was never found. There was another model of 'disappearance' of a body. Enoch, a very popular figure in the apocalyptic literature was said to be have been 'translated' (ie. converted from a bodily form into a heavenly spirit). Hebrews 11:5, with an obvious parallel asserts, By faith Enoch was taken so that he did not experience death; and he was not found because God had taken him.

So, there are two possibilities: 1) in the historical scenario, Paul asserted (in Galatians) that the Jewish Nazarenes essentially shied away from their leader's inglorious end, and sought to cover their cowardice by forcing their converts to conform to the very law under which Jesus was executed, and 2) in the mythical origin, the figure of Yeshu was fashioned as a model of the just man and faithful servant, who was taken up by God.

In both scenarios the absence of a burial place would have been rationalized as a proof of ascension.

Jiri

GakuseiDon

There is a third example -- Moses. According to Philo:
http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/t...lo/book25.html

Solo

Excellent, GDon...thanks for pointing to it...btw, do you see a parallel between this passage from Philo and Mark 9:1:

And he said to them, "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power." ?

If so, where do you see the correspondence ? Much obliged.

Jiri

Gorit Maqueda

Interesting. References?

Solo

Hanina ben Dosa's tomb would be the most interesting example (Ian Wilson, Jesus: the Evidence, Weidenfeld & Nicholson, 1984, p.121) as it comes from near Jesus' time. But many prominent rabbis have their tombs' maintained throughout Galilee. The religious reasons for relocating Maimonides' remains from Egypt to Tiberias are explained here.

Jiri

GakuseiDon

I don't, but it sounds interesting. Where do you see that parallel?

There are quite a few there. IMHO Paul regarded Jesus as the new Moses, and this also comes through in the Gospels. Some examples:

Moses spending 40 days alone to purify himself:

"But, in the first place, before assuming that office, it was necessary for him to purify not only his soul but also his body, so that it should be connected with and defiled by no passion, but should be pure from everything which is of a mortal nature, from all meat and drink, and from all connection with women... And how he neglected all meat and drink for forty days together, evidently because he had more excellent food than that in those contemplations with which he was inspired from above from heaven"

Moses building a tabernacle:

"Therefore Moses now determined to build a tabernacle, a most holy edifice, the furniture of which he was instructed how to supply by precise commands from God, given to him while he was on the mount... for it was suitable and consistent for the task of preparing and furnishing the temple to be entrusted to the real high priest..."

God transforms Moses' body to prepare it to enter heaven:

"And some time afterwards, when he was about to depart from hence to heaven, to take up his abode there, and leaving this mortal life to become immortal, having been summoned by the Father, who now changed him, having previously been a double being, composed of soul and body, into the nature of a single body, transforming him wholly and entirely into a most sun-like mind"

Bodily ascension into heaven, presumably leaving no body behind:

"For when he was now on the point of being taken away, and was standing at the very starting-place, as it were, that he might fly away and complete his journey to heaven... "

Solo

Thanks, Don, of course those are important parallels, but what I had mind was specifically the quote you gave (from LI. 288, Vita Mosis II.) vis-a-vis Mark 9:1.

Jiri

GakuseiDon

No, I don't see it I'm afraid, Jiri. Where do you see the parallel between them?

Mark 9:1:

And he said to them, "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power."

Life of Moses, II, 288:

And some time afterwards, when he was about to depart from hence to heaven, to take up his abode there, and leaving this mortal life to become immortal, having been summoned by the Father, who now changed him, having previously been a double being, composed of soul and body, into the nature of a single body, transforming him wholly and entirely into a most sun-like mind; he then, being wholly possessed by inspiration, does not seem any longer to have prophesied comprehensively to the whole nation altogether, but to have predicted to each tribe separately what would happen to each of them, and to their future generations, some of which things have already come to pass, and some are still expected, because the accomplishment of those predictions which have been fulfilled is the clearest testimony to the future.

Solo

Sorry, Don, I sent you on a goose chase...actually the parallel to Mk 9:1 I see was in (291) quoted after the ".." separator:

I have highlighted the touchpoints. It looks like Jesus in Mk 9:1 has in mind something like the 'little death' (or NDE) of Philo's Moses.. He says in effect : some of you will not taste death before you have experienced the 'transformation into a most sun-like mind', which I am going to demonstrate to Peter & Co.'

Jiri