Originally Posted by ChristMyth

If you look at the above and compare it to the biblical accounts of the Resurrection, it should be clear why this example doesn't work. Take the first two:

1. There were 19 hijackers
2. There was a "20th hijacker" snagged.

Neither one of these is contradictory to the other because, when read in order, a reader can quickly see that there were 19 hijackers which carried out the attack, with a last hijacker that was caught before it he could accomplish his mission. You do not have to add anything to the information given to make it make sense. How about the gospels?

1. Matthew: One angel meets the women
2. Mark: A young man meets the women
3. Luke: Two men dressed in clothes that gleamed like lightening met the women
4 John: Two angels in white met only one woman (Mary M)

Now when a reader reads the above, it is clear that not everything is clear. Was it one young man, one angel, two men, or two angels that met the women (or woman)? In order to make this make sense, you have to start finding ways to make the information fit (i.e. "if there were two angels, the there surely was one angel present,""the two 'men' were actually the two angels," etc.). You cannot read each one and come away with a picture of what happened as you can with the 9/11 information.

In order for the example to work, a reader would have to find articles that read something like this:

1. There were 19 hijackers of Middle Eastern origin that led the attack
2. There were 19 hijackers of South American origin that led the attack
3. There were 20 hijackers dressed in Arab garb that led the attack
4. There were 20 hijackers dressed in American clothing that led the attack

So, in the example, which was it? Were there 19 hijackers or 20? Were they dressed in Middle Eastern style clothing or American? If a reader found four different articles from published newspapers that read like the above, should they have any confidence in any of the newspapers? Should they try to reconcile all of them into a plausible narrative in order to claim that all the newspapers were correct (because surely if there were 20 hijackers, there were 19, right?)?

Originally Posted by thentian

Please try to retain some perspective, ssclichter. We are not talking about something that took place over four continents and five years here. The main focus of the gospels is the crucifixion and resurrection; Three days in one medium city. And we are not talking about details either. Earthquakes and dead people rising from their graves are front page news anywhere.

Originally Posted by sschlichter

The gospels covering the entire life of christ, most of it sparcely. 3 years it covers mildly, 3 hours it covers in some level of detail.You have no way of knowing how much detail. John himself says he did not have enough books in the world to cover everything that he would have wanted to cover but he covered only enough that would assist in the belief of his readers.

You pick any 3 year part (or 3 day part in any detail) of WW2 (or any topic that has mutliple perspectives) and do the same exercise, you will find details covered by some and not by others.

~steve

Originally Posted by thentian

So John did not think it would assist his readers' belief to hear about the earthquake or the dead saints rising from their graves? He evidently did find it worthwhile to mention the people who beat their breasts and left the place and what a centurion had to say about it all. Those are details. An earthquake strong enough to split rocks is not.

Originally Posted by sschlichter

If you presuppose that a contradiction exists and make the example have irreconcilable contradictions, then yes that is a great example. However, that is not the case with the gospels. they have no contradictions.

Originally Posted by aChristian

You guys are grasping at straws. sschlicter gave an excellent example and you have done nothing to show otherwise. The 911 accounts clearly contradict if you take them at face value, however they are all accurate. Your attempts to obfuscate the obvious are weak.

Originally Posted by ChristMyth

No, aChristian, the accounts that were given were not contradictory. If you would have read my post, I clearly show why they are not and give an example of what they would have to say in order for them to be considered so.

All sschlicter did was place his fingers in his ears after I posted it and yelled "Not so!" Not a very convincing retort if you ask me.

Christmyth

Originally Posted by aChristian

One says 19 hijackers and one mentions the 20th hijacker, a clear contradiction.

Originally Posted by thentian

Please read this bit from ChristMyth's earlier post again. Carefully, this time.

Originally Posted by aChristian

No it is not clear, and order has nothing to do with it. Either there were 19 hijackers or there were 20. They cannot both be right. Likewise there were either 2 planes or 4 planes. You are just making up stories to cover the error.