No Robots

Precisely.

It isn't as far off as you might think.

Elijah

That puts a big ol smile my face. I had previously thought you had him in the strictly teacher category (in a mystic sense).

Here's hoping you're right about how close we are. When you look how much the world has changed in the last hundred years nothing seems impossible for this century.

No Robots

Yeah, that's where I have him pegged all right, completely beyond the political. That's why devotion to him frees us politically.

Elijah

Oh well. I think that if he is intentionally going after authority/political figures then he should be understood politically, even if he is approaching the political reform with a mystical mindset or simple philosophical reason.

Toto

Ehrmann explains this as part of the general philosophy of the time. The ideal type was a man. Women were just seen as imperfect men.

The first century was an era of somewhat expanded roles for women in the Roman Empire, but there was no idea of equality or liberation. There were many reasons for women to follow Jesus other than his political agenda. Women were a large part of some of the mystery religions.

Elijah seems to be free associating, trying to fit Jesus into the political landscape of present day America. There may be a lot of precedent for this, but it's no way to do history.

No Robots

Heh. Well, maybe we both have something to chew on along with our Seder meal.

aa5874

But, it is almost certain that John's Jesus is not the Jesus of the Synoptics. John 12.13 is likely to be the words of the unknown author himself and does not appear to reflect any reality. History cannot be just imagined without some credible source.

John's Jesus existed as the Word before the world began.


In which century was it written that a character called Jesus got his feet washed?

Elijah

I’m going to be too drunk… JK.

I don’t see the point in an exclusively mystic Jesus nor an exclusively Jewish one. The argument just turns into that instead and looks to me more like using Jesus to promote mysticism or Judaism instead of the mission of saving the people. Mysticism is such a difficult thing to get your head around, much less attempt to connect with it; I just don’t know how many people out there are any good/proficient at it these days. How many true mystics have you ran across? Do you consider yourself one?

For me a good philosopher and rational mystic aren’t any different, especially when the philosopher is connecting to a spiritual element like logos/reason and the mystic has any purpose or plan at all. But I’m sure you have a much more developed understanding of mysticism than I do since it’s your area.
I’ve said this to you a few times now. You really need to brush up on some philosophy and metaphysics. The logos concept existing before the world shouldn’t give you this many problems.
I don’t know when it was written. Sometime between his death and when I first read it would be my guess. And Jesus was the one washing the feet.

Elijah

Sorry missed this post.

Good job going to a saying outside the bible in a text that I like but that is considered a latter addition. Maybe you want to try something a little more credible with him not saying he will help women become equal and get to heaven if you want to support your sexist fascist understanding of Jesus.

Of coarse women were for the most part considered secondary citizens in most cultures back then but I don't believe the idea of equality was completely foreign to anyone back then even if they didn't agree with it.

Edit: Was I mistaken about what your point was and you were actually using that quote to support my position?

aa5874

Guess what!

You need to brush up on your guessing.

There is no credible source that can confirm Jesus as described in the NT could have died.

The authors of the NT and church writters have provided written statements indicating that Jesus was witnessed by the disciples floating through the clouds.

A most non-historical event.

Guess what!

The non-event can be found in Acts 1.9. The disciples saw it before their very eyes.

By the way, was Jesus washing his feet philosophically through the pen of the author of John?