ThomasIV

Hello, this is my first post and with it I would like to start a discussion by bringing up an original argument to defend the claim that there is no afterlife. If my post is not an original argument, please help me find materials on this idea because I find it very intriguing.

An afterlife, not necessarily a god, is the backbone of a religion. The Buddhists, for example, believe in reincarnation and spiritual nirvana yet they have no creator god. Many of those with faith use stories of those who have had near death experiences (light at the end of the tunnel etc.) to help reinforce their belief in an afterlife. Religion, especially Christianity, looks into these experiences for clues for what life after death may offer for the saved and the dammed.

I believe that people of a religious nature have been looking in the wrong place for an answer to the afterlife question. Let’s do a little experiment: Where were you doing on August 8th 1784? Can you remember? Think really hard now. If you don’t believe in reincarnation, I bet you’re drawing a blank. Don’t feel bad, we’ve all been there you know, dead that is. If we weren’t alive in 1784, we naturally would have had to be dead, since death is the opposite of life.

And what did this death before life offer? The answer lies in the blank you were drawing when you tried to reminisce back to the 18th Century. Since you remembered nothing, you experienced nothing, and thus you didn’t exist; a complete, unquestionable oblivion. Even the most fundamental Christian denominations embrace this naturalistic pre-life. For them, even if the Universe is only 6,000 years old, you did not exist for a least 5,900 of those years. The same goes for those who believe in the Big Bang or those like some of us who say the universe has existed forever. Despite the differences in what we all believe, you’ve been dead for most of the Universe’s existence.

It’s hard for me to understand that some religious people say that if there were no god or afterlife, their life would be meaningless. Why don’t these people say that their life is already meaningless since there was no pre-life before they were born? It just doesn’t made sense to me.

Some secular people who have abandoned the idea of an afterlife still find worry over the notion of returning to nothingness once they die. We should remind these people that they have already experienced what is to come and not to be afraid because a dreamless sleep is probably the best afterlife that anyone could ever hope for.

Comments are welcomed and encouraged, but please be constructive.

-ThomasIV

Zora

But isn't the basis of belief in an afterlife rooted more in a need to be valued? I doubt that telling a religious person that death is nothingness would be of much comfort. The Christian religion provides the perfect parent, who loves the flawed child perfectly. It rewards "good" behavior with eternal life. It offers ultimate control over the uncontrollable (death).

And, of course, Mark Twain already stated something to the effect that he had been dead for millions of years before he was born, and it didn't bother him much.

As for claims of afterlife based on near death experiences..these experiences differ with the cultures and religious beliefs of the person. Buddhists apparently meet a group of people checking records, and are told they haven't completed their learning so must go back. Hindus are told there has been a clerical error (I think). No tunnel, no Jesus, etc. Of course, only a few people ever have NDE's in the first place. Most people experience just what you describe...nothingness.

Albert Cipriani

You know better than that. Something must first be alive before it can be dead. Or are you prepared to assert that rocks circa 1784 were dead, too, for they, like you and I, were not alive then?

Your hidden assumption is the an entity must be biologically alive to be conscious of being alive. It's a narrow unimaginative egocentric view of consciousness. Haven't drugs taught you anything to the contrary? -- Cheers, Albert the Traditional Catholic

Stormlight

I most certainly have not experienced what is to come. As Mr. Cipriani said: "Something must be alive before it can be dead."

The fact that I know that I did not exist before being born does not diminish my fear of total annihiliation.

Oh, and welcome to IIDB!

DaMan121

This is only used as an example since some people have a problem with wrapping their minds around the fact that there can be a state of non-existence.

Huh? This is evidence that conscience is entirely bilogical, same with when someone bumps you on the head and everything goes black (thus the name un-conscience). This has been discussed before, and there is still no evidence that consciousness is not physical.

fishbulb

Are you really afraid that you will, eventually, cease to exist, or are you merely afraid of the fact that the end of your existence may come at time you consider premature or in a manner for which you are not prepared?

While I can fully appreciate many people feel that their deaths may come too soon, I find it hard to fathom why anyone would want to literally exist forever. What would be the point? At some point, there could be no new experiences and everything would become repetitive to the point of your existence becoming a virtual stasis. How would that be better from just fading into nothingness?

Stormlight

Yes, I am actually afraid of ceasing to exist. Terrified, actually. And while I fully understand that it is completely irrational, I cannot help it.

camp freddie

I'd say that evolution has given us all a powerful urge to continue to exist for as long as possible as well as a fear of ceasing to exist. These feelings give us a strong survival advantage over creatures that don't fear death.

You can rationalise the fear of death and show it to be daft, just like you can rationalise love and show it to be daft - but it doesn't make either of them less real.

While I don't necessarily think that living forever would be a good thing, I don't think that an eternal existance would ever get boring. There is so much to do in the universe, and since you'd still be limited by the speed of light, by the time you did all the things you wanted to do, someone would have invented more things to do!

Sven

Up to know, nobody has shown the existence of an entity which is "conscious of beging alive" without being "biologically alive" at the same time. So this assumption seems to be justified.

DaMan121

Are there any creatures that arent "afraid" of death? Or that dont have some kind of survival mechanisms? It seems self preservation is one of the the main instincts that all living things have, maybe that tells us something about the existense of an afterlife.