Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Wads4 · 12-30-2005, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/sinner.htm

Take a look at this. What do you guys think of this?

As I said above,--incoherent ramblings,--all designed by the Christian ruling classes to frighten us into conformity,--and if that does not work there is /was always the Inquisition and the thumb-screw.

Wads4 · 12-30-2005, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian

Hell is UNDER YOUR FEET!

You heathens are in trouble now!

You better hope that the crust holds up...

I'm OK I live on a hill- top.

Wads4 · 12-30-2005, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestionMark

What evidence do you have that "Eternal" is a word having meaning in reality?

If "eternity" exists in the future, did it also exist in the past?

If so, the world always existed.

Very good--I always insist that the Universe is probably eternal--this is a good point in favour of it.

Mageth · 12-30-2005, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wads4

I'm OK I live on a hill- top.

I'm screwed. I live in Texas!

mata leao · 12-30-2005, 12:15 PM

fwiw, the word HOLOCAUST in Hebrew means to "Purify" by fire. How long does it take to purify something that has become impure? and what happens when that instrument is no longer impure but purified? I dont necessarily question the eternal lake of fire, etc etc, but i certainly see a "safety valve" for God to use, if in his mercy and justice he so chooses, that would allow the scriptures to be reconciled without necessarily keeping every soul in hell for all of eternity. There are many theodicies on this topic-worth studying.

John A. Broussard · 12-30-2005, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

fwiw, the word HOLOCAUST in Hebrew means to "Purify" by fire. How long does it take to purify something that has become impure? and what happens when that instrument is no longer impure but purified? I dont necessarily question the eternal lake of fire, etc etc, but i certainly see a "safety valve" for God to use, if in his mercy and justice he so chooses, that would allow the scriptures to be reconciled without necessarily keeping every soul in hell for all of eternity. There are many theodicies on this topic-worth studying.

Comparing god's hell to Hitler's holocaust is something I'd never thought about. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Mageth · 12-30-2005, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

fwiw, the word HOLOCAUST in Hebrew means to "Purify" by fire.

Well, not exactly:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=holocaust

First, in Biblical usage it means "sacrifice by fire, burnt offering", and implies consumption by fire, not purification by fire. Second, it's from the Greek holokauston ("burned whole"), and is not a "Hebrew" word. And there's nothing there about "purify".

mata leao · 12-30-2005, 01:09 PM

uhh NO, once again...Holocaust in Hebrew, means to purify by fire, .....at 18,462 posts one would think that you would know how to do basic exegesis of Hebrew source words. Since you say you go to christian church every week (???) why dont you ask your pastor what the Hebrew word for Holocaust is and what it means. As an atheist, are you also an expert in Christian theology? nice gig, you can play both sides of the street!

Mageth · 12-30-2005, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

uhh NO, once again...Holocaust in Hebrew, means to purify by fire, .....at 18,462 posts one would think that you would know how to do basic exegesis of Hebrew source words. Since you say you go to christian church every week (???) why dont you ask your pastor what the Hebrew word for Holocaust is and what it means. As an atheist, are you also an expert in Christian theology? nice gig, you can play both sides of the street!

Holocaust is from the Greek, and is not a "Hebrew" word, though Hebrews certainly used it. Literally meaning "burned whole", but used to mean "sacrifice by fire, burnt offering".

And, thanks, but I'll trust a reliable etymological source over pastors.

Oh, and here's another source (emphasis mine):

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07396b.htm

Quote:

As suggested by its Greek origin (holos "whole", and kaustos "burnt") the word designates an offering entirely consumed by fire, in use among the Jews and some pagan nations of antiquity. As employed in the Vulgate, it corresponds to two Hebrew terms: (1) to holah, literally: "that which goes up", either to the altar to be sacrificed, or to heaven in the sacrificial flame; (2) Kalil, literally: "entire", "perfect", which, as a sacrificial term, is usually a descriptive synonym of holah, and denotes an offering consumed wholly on the altar.

Nothing at all about "purify". Lots about consumption.

It would seem to be you that needs to work on your "exegesis".

Oh, BTW, I was a Christian for 45 years before becoming an atheist, and have spent 50 years listening to, reading about, being preached and taught about, studying, thinking about, etc. etc. etc. "Christian theology."

Mageth · 12-30-2005, 01:29 PM

And yes, I could play "both sides of the street". I get the strong sense that I know Christian theology, the Bible, etc. better than most Christians that come around here. I've certainly thought (and read) about it more than most. And could argue it better than most, if I so wished.

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12-30-2005, 12:15 PM	#35
mata leao Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: tampa,florida Posts: 342	fwiw, the word HOLOCAUST in Hebrew means to "Purify" by fire. How long does it take to purify something that has become impure? and what happens when that instrument is no longer impure but purified? I dont necessarily question the eternal lake of fire, etc etc, but i certainly see a "safety valve" for God to use, if in his mercy and justice he so chooses, that would allow the scriptures to be reconciled without necessarily keeping every soul in hell for all of eternity. There are many theodicies on this topic-worth studying.

12-30-2005, 01:09 PM	#38
mata leao Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: tampa,florida Posts: 342	uhh NO, once again...Holocaust in Hebrew, means to purify by fire, .....at 18,462 posts one would think that you would know how to do basic exegesis of Hebrew source words. Since you say you go to christian church every week (???) why dont you ask your pastor what the Hebrew word for Holocaust is and what it means. As an atheist, are you also an expert in Christian theology? nice gig, you can play both sides of the street!

12-30-2005, 01:29 PM	#40
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	And yes, I could play "both sides of the street". I get the strong sense that I know Christian theology, the Bible, etc. better than most Christians that come around here. I've certainly thought (and read) about it more than most. And could argue it better than most, if I so wished.

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