Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Dryhad · 12-14-2005, 09:33 PM

What YHWH believes is unknown, but some deities worship a metadeity, which is even more ineffable than regular deities and stands above all of them. The metadeity requires regular deities to bridge the gap to mortals. Mortals lack the capacity to fully understand the metadeity, while regular deities have more "mortal" qualities. They face conflict, have opinions, speak, and so forth.

Note: This post is almost entirely of my own creation. There is no philosophy regarding a metadeity. I wouldn't have a clue what deities think of what they don't understand.

DMC · 12-14-2005, 09:39 PM

An all knowing omnipresent anything would not have an opinion, a belief or a religion. The outcome would be in logical format, 1 or 0. Either the event occurs or it does not. Maybe and perhaps and odds and all that are merely man's games. Trust me, I happen to be omnipresent.

MrFrosty · 12-15-2005, 03:43 AM

God is depressed because he lacks self-belief :huh:

UberLutheran · 12-15-2005, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojuice5001

Obviously any theist will say that God(s) have the same religion as the theist himself. For instance, I'm a polytheist, so I think that since the gods know of each other's existence, that makes them polytheists as well.

Of course, we can question whether that's still a religious belief on the gods' part; for the gods, after all, such questions are matters of fact, not of opinion--much less faith.

It might be claimed that religion is, by definition, about the unknown and mysterious. If so, that would mean that an omniscient God has no religion, and even a non-omniscient god would probably know enough about the universe that it has no need to take things on faith.

The various religions (Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc.) are for our benefit -- not God's.

God does not need a religion. We have the various religions as paths to God, or knowledge of God -- but God is not a Christian, a Jew, a Hindu, a Buddhist, a Muslim, a Sikh, or any other religion.

I think it's really the height of presumption on our part for us to presume that our sect of our religion on this planet (whatever that sect or religion is) is the exclusive recipient of God's divine favor, given the likelihood that out of an estimated quintillion or so possible solar systems, should even one billionth of one percent of those solar systems have a planet which can sustain life on it, that will still be one hundred billion places where life could exist.

Humans are not as exclusive as we'd like to think we are -- or as irreplaceable.

norma98026 · 12-15-2005, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dryhad

What YHWH believes is unknown, but some deities worship a metadeity, which is even more ineffable than regular deities and stands above all of them. The metadeity requires regular deities to bridge the gap to mortals. Mortals lack the capacity to fully understand the metadeity, while regular deities have more "mortal" qualities. They face conflict, have opinions, speak, and so forth.

Note: This post is almost entirely of my own creation. There is no philosophy regarding a metadeity. I wouldn't have a clue what deities think of what they don't understand.

I like the last. Honest and all. Do you know what the Bible says about God worshipping another god?

Norma

Kassiana · 12-15-2005, 11:02 PM

God is, obviously, a Buddhist.

norma98026 · 12-15-2005, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derrida

Well, I admit to being somewhat facetious with this thread - but the question still interests me.

I suppose a better wording might be: is it necessary for an omniscient God to "believe" something? Can he? If the answer is "no," as seems right on first glance, does it then follow that God requires of us something he himself cannot really understand (that is, empathize with)?

God doesn't have to take anything on faith, i.e. believe, because he knows everything for a fact. We, on the other hand, have to trust others for what we ourselves don't know in order to get along in life, especially in light of the information explosion. For example, we trust pilots, doctors, computer techs, electricians, and engineers. We can't possibly know everything. God, in addition, created us with the capacity to trust, although it's humbling to admit we need to. When God the Son (Jesus) came to earth as a human, he experienced what it was like to trust, because he trusted God the Father. So God knows what it means to "believe," and he's not asking anything unreasonable of us.

As for God embracing a religion...
When Satan offered Jesus, who claimed to be God, all the kingdoms of the world if he (Jesus) would bow down and worship him, i.e. believe in Satanism, Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'" (from Matthew chapter 4, verses 8-11)

Norma in Seattle

Eldarion Lathria · 12-16-2005, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norma98026

God doesn't have to take anything on faith, i.e. believe, because he knows everything for a fact. We, on the other hand, have to trust others for what we ourselves don't know in order to get along in life, especially in light of the information explosion. For example, we trust pilots, doctors, computer techs, electricians, and engineers. We can't possibly know everything. God, in addition, created us with the capacity to trust, although it's humbling to admit we need to. When God the Son (Jesus) came to earth as a human, he experienced what it was like to trust, because he trusted God the Father. So God knows what it means to "believe," and he's not asking anything unreasonable of us.

As for God embracing a religion...
When Satan offered Jesus, who claimed to be God, all the kingdoms of the world if he (Jesus) would bow down and worship him, i.e. believe in Satanism, Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'" (from Matthew chapter 4, verses 8-11)

Norma in Seattle

If Satan showed Jesus all the kingdoms of the world, how is it that he did not discover America? Or is it only with kingdoms that his sooty highness is concerned?

Eldarion Lathria

derrida · 12-16-2005, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norma98026

When God the Son (Jesus) came to earth as a human, he experienced what it was like to trust, because he trusted God the Father. So God knows what it means to "believe," and he's not asking anything unreasonable of us.

Can't say I follow. Trust is one thing; faith is another. God's asks that we take it on faith (that is, blind faith) that an invisible being created us and will judge everyone on a set of criteria set out in an ancient text (one among how many?) and decide where one spends eternity. Jesus, being the son of God, had a bit of a leg up in this department, did he not?

So Jesus had to trust -- big deal. Trust can be based on experience, on day to day interactions. Faith is far thornier a prospect and, as you said, something an omnipotent being by his very nature could not have known. How could a being who never doubts understand the experience of doubting? Is this not like a man, who will never give birth to a child, proclaiming his mastery of childbirth? Or, in this case, even punishing those who did not react "correctly" to the experience?

norma98026 · 12-17-2005, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldarion Lathria

If Satan showed Jesus all the kingdoms of the world, how is it that he did not discover America? Or is it only with kingdoms that his sooty highness is concerned?

Eldarion Lathria

Hi Eldarion,

How did you come to the conclusion that Satan did not show Jesus American soil during the temptation?

Norma

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12-14-2005, 09:33 PM	#11
Dryhad Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 2,035	What YHWH believes is unknown, but some deities worship a metadeity, which is even more ineffable than regular deities and stands above all of them. The metadeity requires regular deities to bridge the gap to mortals. Mortals lack the capacity to fully understand the metadeity, while regular deities have more "mortal" qualities. They face conflict, have opinions, speak, and so forth. Note: This post is almost entirely of my own creation. There is no philosophy regarding a metadeity. I wouldn't have a clue what deities think of what they don't understand.

12-14-2005, 09:39 PM	#12
DMC Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstairs Posts: 3,803	An all knowing omnipresent anything would not have an opinion, a belief or a religion. The outcome would be in logical format, 1 or 0. Either the event occurs or it does not. Maybe and perhaps and odds and all that are merely man's games. Trust me, I happen to be omnipresent.

12-15-2005, 03:43 AM	#13
MrFrosty Moderator - Miscellaneous Discussions Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Shenzhen, S.E. China (UK ex-pat) Posts: 14,249	God is depressed because he lacks self-belief :huh:

12-15-2005, 11:02 PM	#16
Kassiana Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: USA Posts: 5,046	God is, obviously, a Buddhist.

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