spin

I realize that. You haven't got a single reason related to the material you are analyzing to make the assumptions you have, but you haven't been convinced that they weren't possibly the case, so until someone provides you with a written denial from the author you going to stick to your guns. You could believe that Eusebius wrote the new testament with the same strength of evidence.


spin

spamandham

You win. Your piss really does travel further.

Hopefully the rest of us can refocus on the thread.

judge

Ok so we are dealing with a field that deals "almost entirely with ambiguous evidence", in your own words.
The problem is that "spamandham" has said that in this instance we have something "unambiguous". But, not only that he has said that anyone who thinks otherwise must be a fundamentalist.
So....is this evidence "unambiguous" or merely the best fit?

This board is supposedly for "freethought".
Since when do "freethinkers" take best fit, loose explanations and suggest they are "unambiguous", and that anyone who wont agree must be a fundamentalist?

spamandham

I already conceeded that I'm a fundamentalist. What more do you want? Move on already and quit trying to derail the thread.

spin

That's certainly not good enough. You made an off the wall claim in the OP about the suns of thunder being a reference to the progeny of Jupiter. You have not been able to defend the claim. You prefer to assume it despite the fact that there is good justification for the notion of thunder to have been current in the source materials and cultural ethos behind christianity. You simply indicate that you will not consider it preferring your own bias against from the obvious. You assume that when John and James talk about bringing down thunder that it is evidence for your claim, yet when asked to provide some evidence that Castor and Pollux did anything similar, you simply ignored the question.

Now after meandering away from these problems, you want to get back to the OP and forget that it has no justification to back it up. Why not admit that the OP is based on nothing more than hopeful conjecture and a Spanish history book? Storm gods are common in the ancient world: Baal, Yahweh, Hadad, Indra, Set, Zeus, even Marduk. It would seem every culture around the world had its storm/thunder god. Yet you decide because John and James are referred to as "sons of thunder" that they must be the Dioscuri.

You need pissing practice.


spin

spamandham

What part of "your piss travels further" do you not understand? You win. You win *BIG*. I simply can not prove that a writer holding an education that gives him mastery of the Greek written language, and writing of Roman historical people and customs, is also familiar with highly popular myths of his culture. It is an impossible task for me.

Why do you refuse to bask in the glory of your victory and allow the rest of us fools to continue with our wild eyed speculation that no reasonable person on the planet would accept?

spin

Thanks for the translation. For me piss traveling further is about physical ability, not argument, grunt rather than evidence. That's why I said you needed pissing practice.

Now that I understand that 'the "Sons of Thunder"' being 'a clear reference to prodigy of Jupiter' is "wild eyed speculation", then please don't let me stop you from your speculating.... I was just confused by the "clear reference", which to me means "clear reference". :thinking:


spin

andrewcriddle

The Dioskouroi were regarded as the protectors of sailors in times of bad weather and were apparently identified with St._Elmo's_fire
See Alcaeus to_castor_and_pollux

I'm not sure that it was explicitly stated that they perform this role as a result of their affiliation with the sky-god.

Andrew Criddle

spin

Here's another translation of Alcaeus without the constraints of the verse:

"Come hither, leaving the island of Pelops [Peloponnese], strong sons of Zeus and Leda; appear with kindly heart, Kastor and Polydeukes, who go on swift horses over the broad earth and all the sea, and easily rescue men from chilling death, leaping on the peaks of their well-benched ships, brilliant from afar as you run up the fore-stays [St. Elmo's fire], bringing light to the black ship in the night of trouble."

(From here, a site that has many ancient references to the Dioscuri.)


spin

andrewcriddle

Thanks spin

I wasn't aware that the identification with St Elmo's fire was in the Homeric Hymns.

Andrew Criddle