perfectbite

Which only goes to show how limited philosophies are. The Buddha eschewed any philosophy as being entirely insufficient and said that our true nature is beyond human comprehension, not experience, but comprehension. Mind is all that is and matter has no existence apart from mind. Yup, I'm a mind only fundy.

premjan

In that case I suppose you would like to believe that the mind lives on after death (perhaps is reincarnated into the mind of someone else)? Or that we are all reflections of some enormous world mind? Makes you feel like you are back in the womb perhaps?

perfectbite

Premjan, I have absolutely no idea what happens to us after death and really am not concerned about it either. I don't believe there is a God but if there is I will offer it the same argument of Marmaladov from Dostoyevki's (Sp?) Crime and Punishment. "You made me as I am, how could you reasonably expect any different?""Do your best or worst it's all your game anyway" (My added comment in italics)

As far as the womb goes let me put it this way, instead of using the term 'Mind' let's use the term consciousness. No womb here either.

Dharma,
The seven foot tall blond guy tap dancing on water - pure theater.
I had hoped that human kind was becoming more reasonable and wouldn't need nor want such blatant showmanship but I guess not. A full acceptance of evolution would be proof of the rational mind at work but the way it is going the world will be a dry ball of dust before humans would be smart enough to say 'Evolution? Well Duh!'

Dharma

The assertion that "pure theatre" is a bad thing made Buddhism quite boring...HInduism says have fun, it's an illusion...leave with a bang! Hinduism simply said go for the ultimate truth before you have fun though...

of course in a world full of superstition, Buddha was a breath of fresh air and made sure monks under him performed no miracles, but Buddhism didn't spread that much during his lifetime...other monks were responsible by doing a little bit of theatre here and there...in other words, Buddhism spread in a big way not because of the reason of the Buddha, it spread because of the 'proof is in the pudding" attitude of later monks...small numbers of highly intellectual people have always fallen for the reasoned debate of Buddha, but the masses, nah! They need a showman like Jesus...

premjan

Do you believe in the notion of "Gaia", that there are unknown long-range patterns that control the evolution of the universe (perhaps the evolution of life)? That cause things to come out more ordered and less random and more beautiful than they othewise would?

perfectbite

Dharma,

It seems that the sensory overload of the multiplicity of Hindu Deities could lead to superstition but the Chinese are incredibly superstitious and they don't have multiple deities.

Also, and I have finally come to recognize this as a valid argument, if one looks at life as an illusion then does pain and suffering have any value at all?

If I am asleep and dreaming that I am falling off a cliff is my baseless feeling of helpless fright actually non existent because it is the result of a dream?

Just on the off chance that pain and suffering may be real I tend to take our common reality, even though it is the product of mind only, as reflective of what is.

I don't know. I would like to think that Buddhism has a chance of taking root in the West without having to create its own theatre to be able to overshadow existing theater.


The small group of intellectuals persuaded by the Buddha's reasoned arguments tend to stop at the line drawn by their own intellects even when the Buddha has told them that the rational mind is a part of the true nature. Such a shedding of one's hard won intellect and accrued fame and fortune for the simpler, door opening 'rational mind' would truly be a leap of faith but instead of accepting the purer, simpler form of mind those intellects tend to philosophize and construct wonderful idea edifices and muddy the waters for themselves and others.

Paraprakrti

Srimad Bhagavatam 1.3.24

Then, in the beginning of Kali-yuga, the Lord will appear as Lord Buddha, the son of Añjan�?, in the province of Gay�?, just for the purpose of deluding those who are envious of the faithful theist.

premjan

Do Hindus (OK let's say Vaishnavas) really set a lot of store in prophecies? And is the Bhagavatam definitely datable to pre-Buddhist times? I would bet that it was really easy for some scholar copying this work into written form to insert a comment like this.

Dharma

The unfortuneate realization of people who think is that they find out that most people don't think and put up false intellectual boundaries...

for instance, this site belongs to mostly atheists who are as adamant in refusing to believe in an idea of "god" and calling it superstitious without thinking it through themselves as a theist who would never entertain the idea of an absence of God...I used to be an agnostic...then I started doing some serious Hindu/Buddhist meditation and found the true meaning of the "gods and rakshasas" quite wonderful...to those adamant atheists, they will never discover what the ancients meant...to them only "modern" people and science understand, and all those people in the past were just stupid, superstitious people...but the first thing is you must give these people who have been documenting all these miracles for thousands of years the benefit of the doubt...I never said Abrahamic religions are false, I said they are not the highest attained and are very limited in their thinking, thus barbaric in many ways...

as I said, for firm roots to take place you might need some either eastern masters or western masters to establish some serous schools in the west, who can prove that the Buddhist method does work...and in fact works BETTER than Abrahamic ones...for instance you will be surprised to find that a vast number of people in the west think that only Jews are the chosen ones because the Bible says so and only they can produce someone called a "messiah" which is basically the Jewish King of Israel, which has literally led to a spiritual hegemony and spiritual decline that lead to science since noone could prove what in heavens the Bible means.

However, Buddhism, Hinduism and Taoism know that there are no chosen ones, it is entirely your own spiritual efforts...you must choose yourself and have faith in yourself for you are as part of this force as anyone else, Hinduism and Buddhism have so many spiritual lineages it is amazing...

That is also true, for instance, the westerners seek a "western Buddhism" but first you must understand the basis of Buddhism is pure meditation and forgo all ego of western vs. eastern, country and cultural tradition vs. political ideas of pretend freedom...only after the Chinese/Japanese understood this did their own Buddhism emerge...the Indians and Chinese have always based their designs on firm notions of the force, this has allowed them to survive even the most turbulent times in history, when their ideas were questioned relentlessly...

Dharma

the bhakti movement and theism (god as a separate entity) came into Hinduism in a BIG way only after the Islamic and British incursions, perhaps when Indians had less self confidence and could never believe themselves to be God they worship...otherwise, Vedic Hinduism is about the science of the self...