Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Barcode · 10-17-2003, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by relight
God is real, otherwise how can you explain love and music? They're like magic and you can't explain it, it must be a gift from god.

God is never a replacement for human ignorance.

Something being unexplainable is *not* equivalent to it being of divine origin.

Really, you can do better than this " proof."

King Rat · 10-17-2003, 01:39 PM

I make my music, with no help from any supernatural beings. When the first man slapped a rhythm on a log and grunted some words, music was born. No gods needed.

The most powerful force on the planet is the reproductive drive. Love is an emotional component evolved to encourage bonding between mating pairs.

NEXT!

Defiant Heretic · 10-17-2003, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dilandau:
/* From a programmers view, if God is real, then God is a variable. /*

#define God real static

That's a constant.

hope's daughter · 10-17-2003, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eifion
I'm in love with my partner, I'm also a musician and write songs and play guitar for a band called Blue Gheko.

I'm also an atheist. Indeed, I used to be fully signed up born again xian fundie, so I know fully what it is I'm rejecting. Surely in the sight of god that makes me the worst possible kind of atheist.

Why would god alow me to enjoy being in love and making music? Why give a magical gift to someone who's totally rejected him?

I find your post very interesting. Sounds as if you are a humble atheist and have just given an argument of why everyone of us is unworthy of God's mercy.

God bless you and also good luck with your music

Gawdawful · 10-18-2003, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hope's daughter
I find your post very interesting. Sounds as if you are a humble atheist and have just given an argument of why everyone of us is unworthy of God's mercy.

Huh? Walk that one by me again, only this time explain how eifion put forth an argument supporting your contention at all.

Thank you,
Warren

hope's daughter · 10-20-2003, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by warrenly
Huh? Walk that one by me again, only this time explain how eifion put forth an argument supporting your contention at all.

Thank you,
Warren

Quote:

originally by eifion
Here is what attracted me to eifion's post: I'm also an atheist. Indeed, I used to be fully signed up born again xian fundie, so I know fully what it is I'm rejecting. Surely in the sight of god that makes me the worst possible kind of atheist.

Why would god alow me to enjoy being in love and making music? Why give a magical gift to someone who's totally rejected him?

I happen to see honesty in the questions he possed. I also see gratitude and appreciation and a level of sincerity. There does not seem to be the usual puffing up of ones ego. His questions are not haughty but reveal a genuine quest for honest answers. This is how I am reading his post. I could be all wrong about eifion and he can come on and rake me over the coals me but somehow I do not believe he or she is that kind of a person

hope's daughter · 10-20-2003, 10:34 PM

eifion · 10-21-2003, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hope's daughter
His questions are not haughty but reveal a genuine quest for honest answers. This is how I am reading his post. I could be all wrong about eifion and he can come on and rake me over the coals me but somehow I do not believe he or she is that kind of a person

I'm sorry but I have to put up my hand and admit to a degree of haughtiness rather than a qenuine quest for honest answers.

It was however a genuine attempt to counter the OP. The OP suggested that the magic of music and love are gifts from god. I pointed out that I've knowingly rejected god, but continue to enjoy love and music - allegedly god's gifts. This makes us face one of a number of scenarios.

1. god doesn't know I've rejected him
2. god doesn't care I've rejected him
3. music and love aren't really gifts from god, therefore god has no authority over who can enjoy them
4. music and love aren't really gifts from god, because god doesn't exist.

The accepted consensus (if there is such a thing) on the nature of god as described my the majority of theists in the Abrahamic tradition contradict 1,2 and 3 (omnicience, desire for his creatures to enter a relationship with him, omnipotence) thus leading the opening poster to conclusion 4.

You were right though that I am not given to coal-raking.

10-21-2003, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eifion

It was however a genuine attempt to counter the OP. The OP suggested that the magic of music and love are gifts from god. I pointed out that I've knowingly rejected god, but continue to enjoy love and music - allegedly god's gifts. This makes us face one of a number of scenarios.

1. god doesn't know I've rejected him
2. god doesn't care I've rejected him
3. music and love aren't really gifts from god, therefore god has no authority over who can enjoy them
4. music and love aren't really gifts from god, because god doesn't exist.

The accepted consensus (if there is such a thing) on the nature of god as described my the majority of theists in the Abrahamic tradition contradict 1,2 and 3 (omnicience, desire for his creatures to enter a relationship with him, omnipotence) thus leading the opening poster to conclusion 4.

and:
5. music and love are gifts from god, and we're free to enjoy them even we're no believers in god.

I'm an athiest and the OP.... and sorry for the disagreement here but I think it'd be better if we have more discussions from both sides (thiest and athiest)

King Rat · 10-21-2003, 07:52 AM

According to some myths, in addition to being the "light-bringer," Satan was quite the accomplished musician. I've heard fundies say that any music other than church music is Satan's creation. So maybe you xians should resolve the issue amongst yourselves before bringing the matter to the EAC for perusal.

Everybody knows that Satan has the best bands.

10-20-2003, 10:34 PM	#27
hope's daughter Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: middle earth Posts: 601	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: God is real

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10-17-2003, 01:39 PM	#22
King Rat Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 6,855	I make my music, with no help from any supernatural beings. When the first man slapped a rhythm on a log and grunted some words, music was born. No gods needed. The most powerful force on the planet is the reproductive drive. Love is an emotional component evolved to encourage bonding between mating pairs. NEXT!

10-21-2003, 07:52 AM	#30
King Rat Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 6,855	According to some myths, in addition to being the "light-bringer," Satan was quite the accomplished musician. I've heard fundies say that any music other than church music is Satan's creation. So maybe you xians should resolve the issue amongst yourselves before bringing the matter to the EAC for perusal. Everybody knows that Satan has the best bands.

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