aa5874

Which Jewish writer external of the NT and apologetics recorded any new interpretation of Jewish scripture before the fall of the Temple?

Neither Philo, a contemporary of the so-called Son of God of the Jews , nor Josephus, a contemporary of the so-called Paul, ever mention any new interpretation of scripture by the Jewish community.

Up to 135 CE, approximately 65 years after the fall of the Temple, or one hundred years after the so-called Jesus, it would appear that the Jewish community still expected a miltary-styled Messiah, not a son of a God that would ascend through the clouds after being crucified as a blasphemer.

Neither Philo nor Josephus wrote any thing about the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues or the gifts of the Holy Ghost, including the gift of miracles, as stated by the so-called Pauls in their epistles.

According to Josephus, when he himself fell off his horse he went to a physician, it would appear he did not know that Peter and Paul could have performed miracles through the Holy Ghost or Jesus.

There is just no information, external of the NT and apologetics, to support the theory that the Jewish community had a new interpretation of Jewish scripture during the reign of Tiberius or up to Nero.

Clivedurdle

A new improved god, much like a washing powder with brighteners and aloe vera?

Sounds quite gnostic!

dog-on

Why a Jewish sect, necessarily?

His belief system was simple.

The god of the Jews was not the greater god. The greater god sent his son, the christ, as a ransom, paid to the demiurge, for our salvation.

Simple.

dog-on

Nah, that was the mystery hidden from ages past. You just needed the correct decoder ring!

bacht

Yes, there is no confirmation of these things before the 2nd C. The simplest explanation is that nobody noticed this particular flavour of messianism at the time. They were probably lumped together with other Jews by the gentiles.

I assume your theory has already been examined here in detail in other threads?

aa5874

Why were people waiting for the end when the Temple was still intact and functioning at around 33 CE?

If you read Josephus "Antiquities of the Jews" during the time of Pilate between 26-36 CE, the Jews would rather die, have their necks cut off, than allow Pilate to install statues of Caesar in the Temple.

Only madmen with suicidal tendencies would tell the Jewish community to worship a crucified blasphemer as the son of their God during the days of Pilate.

During the reign of Tiberius, there is no indication that the Jewish community thought the Law or the world was finished.

And it would appear the Pauls of the NT knew the Law was finished because they wrote after the Temple was destroyed, unless these Pauls were ALL real PROPHETS, or guessed right all the time.

bacht

I agree, that's why I don't think there was an historical Jesus who died outside Jerusalem under Pilate. But there were Jews who believed in apocalyptic predictions of the end, if Daniel and the DSS are any indication.

Whoever wrote Romans, Galatians, Thessalonians wanted to include Gentiles in the Christian movement. Whether we call him Paul or not is secondary. If you're saying that this material came after the fall of the temple I can't refute it, other than wondering why it was never mentioned. Wouldn't such an event have attracted speculation from contemporaries? Why not use it as an example of God's abandonment of Israel?

andrewcriddle

Origen wrote (according to Eusebius) about Hebrews Church History Book 6 chapter 25

Andrew Criddle

Ben C Smith

On my site I carry a collection of ancient opinions about the authorship of Hebrews.

Ben.

mountainman

Dear penguinfan,

My thoughts would be to ask you this question. Do you mean to imply that there was an historical person called umm Paul who did this invention? Or might it be a possibility that some other author, writing profusely in the name of Paul, invented the Pauline letters and other embarrassing forgeries at some later century?



Best wishes,



Pete