Freethought & Rationalism Archive

spin · 12-08-2006, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzim77

In case you hadn't heard... a head's up (I guess this is a day late anyways)

From the BBC.com article...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6219656.stm

"Archaeologists working for the Vatican have unearthed a sarcophagus containing what they believe are the remains of St Paul the Apostle.
The tomb dates back to at least AD390 and was found in a crypt under a basilica in Rome.

It has long been thought that the crypt contained the tomb of St Paul but the altar had hidden it.

St Paul was an influential early Christian who travelled widely in the Mediterranean area in the 1st Century.

Excavations at the site began in 2002 and were completed last month.

..The original inscription on the top reads: Paulo Apostolo Mart - Latin for "Paul Apostle Martyr".

I guess it means we can now forget about the tomb that was supposed to be below the Vatican, as this one was below the altar at Saint Paul's outside the Walls... but then again maybe not. This is after all a monument which goes back to 390 CE. It may have been a cenotaph, while the real tomb is under the Vatican. But then again it may just be as real as the hypothetical tomb under the Vatican.

spin

Malachi151 · 12-08-2006, 09:35 AM

Time to assimilate:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=189133

dzim77 · 12-08-2006, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

I guess it means we can now forget about the tomb that was supposed to be below the Vatican, as this one was below the altar at Saint Paul's outside the Walls... but then again maybe not. This is after all a monument which goes back to 390 CE. It may have been a cenotaph, while the real tomb is under the Vatican. But then again it may just be as real as the hypothetical tomb under the Vatican.

spin

too late for an autopsy i suppose?

pob14 · 12-08-2006, 09:39 AM

I'm extremely ignorant on these matters - one of the reasons I read this section. Anyway, is it credible that someone who gets martyred then gets buried in a sarcophagus in a tomb marked "Paul Apostle Martyr" on it? Or is this supposed to be someplace his body was moved to, when it wasn't so dangerous to be an apostle any more? Or what?

ETA: Many of my questions are addressed in the thread linked to by Malachi above.

dzim77 · 12-08-2006, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi151

Time to assimilate:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=189133

oops, sorry for the repeat.

jgibson000 · 12-08-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzim77

too late for an autopsy i suppose?

Um, no. Not if the body doesn't have a head.

Jeffrey

CJD · 12-08-2006, 11:13 AM

Just as Diogenes suggested, it's not a given that Paul was executed by the Romans. He could have just as easily traveled on to Spain, as was his design (Rom 15:24, 28), and died in obscurity heralding his king in foreign lands.

CJD

Malachi151 · 12-08-2006, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJD

Just as Diogenes suggested, it's not a given that Paul was executed by the Romans. He could have just as easily traveled on to Spain, as was his design (Rom 15:24, 28), and died in obscurity heralding his king in foreign lands.

CJD

In any case, we are saying that the chance that this is anything other than an old shrine, sans corps of Paul, is pretty low.

andrewcriddle · 12-09-2006, 10:23 AM

The earliest evidence of the memorials to Peter and Paul at the Vatican and the Ostian Way (the site of St Paul's outside the Walls where the sarcophagus has been found)) appears to be Gaius c 200 CE quoted by Eusebius in Church History book 2 chapter 25

Quote:

I can point out the monuments of the Victorious Apostles If you will go as far as the Vatican or the Ostian Way you will find the monuments of those who founded this church.

Andrew Criddle

WishboneDawn · 12-09-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi151

I don't know the history of this, but if he were actually beheaded in 65 CE, then how does he end up in this tomb a few hundred years later??

Lots of peoples have quite a thing for digging up remains and reburying them, especially remains of important people.

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12-08-2006, 09:35 AM	#12
Malachi151 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 8,674	Time to assimilate: http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=189133

12-08-2006, 09:39 AM	#14
pob14 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 543	I'm extremely ignorant on these matters - one of the reasons I read this section. Anyway, is it credible that someone who gets martyred then gets buried in a sarcophagus in a tomb marked "Paul Apostle Martyr" on it? Or is this supposed to be someplace his body was moved to, when it wasn't so dangerous to be an apostle any more? Or what? ETA: Many of my questions are addressed in the thread linked to by Malachi above.

12-08-2006, 11:13 AM	#17
CJD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: greater Orlando area Posts: 832	Just as Diogenes suggested, it's not a given that Paul was executed by the Romans. He could have just as easily traveled on to Spain, as was his design (Rom 15:24, 28), and died in obscurity heralding his king in foreign lands. CJD

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