Doug Krueger

DOUG KRUEGER writes:

Gastrich's latest debate challenge is absurd. Gastrich had ample time and space to reply to the John 18:20 problem in our IIDB debate last summer, yet he could not find any plausible response. In addition, after the debate was over, he could have availed himself of the opportunity to post additional material on this topic in the Peanut Gallery of the debate, yet he did not.

A few weeks ago, on June 19, 2006, Gastrich posted on Farrell Till's Errancy discussion list, the following claim:

Obligingly, I posted the John 18:20 problem that Gastrich had not satisfactorily resolved. In response, Gastrich simply cut and pasted the very same refuted points he had used in our IIDB debate. When I carefully and concisely pointed out how each of his points had been refuted, Gastrich resorted to lines of argumentation that could not be taken seriously as plausible attempts to resolve the contradiction. One such attempt on Errancy was even prefaced by the astounding claim that "The commentary I wrote seemed so self-evident, so obvious that I didn't think it needed to be written."

So Gastrich left most of my points unrebutted in our IIDB debate, left the contradiction unresolved, but the best refutation was so obvious he didn't need to state it? With all due respect, these kinds of antics do not belong to someone whose debate proposals can be taken seriously.

In addition, during our IIDB debate, in fact within the debate, Gastrich made it a point to challenge me to an onstage, live debate. After the IIDB debate was concluded, I accepted his offer at his insistence, and then when the debate date neared he cancelled it.

I'm afraid Gastrich has exhausted my patience with regard to formal debates. I am willing to discuss his responses to the John 18:20 problem on Errancy, but given his track record in debates, and the fact that none of his latest attempts at resolution are remotely interesting let alone plausible, I have no interest in indulging him in another formal debate anytime soon. He had many chances on IIDB. If he is dissatisfied with his performance, so be it.

Jim Lazarus

Jeez, a year has gone by and this is still going on? Why was the oral debate cancelled?

JL

Bible John

Why do you always debate the atheists? Why cant you debate with the cults and false chritian decivers for a change?

Oops. This is a Atheist board.

But nevertheless I challenge you to a debate on debt.

You may find the forum here.

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=170758

Jason Gastrich

Absurd? When I returned to ii_errancy around February of this year, I started talking to you and others about alleged Bible errors. You didn't bring up your absurd notion that Jesus lied until one week ago. When you brought it up (well, you copied and pasted your brief argument from our last debate) I did you the same favor. And then a discussion ensued.

During and after our last debate, I handily answered and rebutted your notion. This is why I didn't bother to bring it up in the Peanut Gallery and why I didn't bother to bring it up on ii_errancy. When you brought it up exactly a week ago, I addressed it, again. I also gave some plausible possibilities that make much more sense than your conclusion.

Yes, but the onstage debate involved me flying to a city about 1 hour from your town, getting to your town, putting myself up, and debating you in a little library; all on my own dime. Even so, I was going to embark on this journey, but I found I had to be in Louisiana for the entire week and not just one day for graduation, so I had to cancel.

This is what doesn't make sense. You'll debate me on a 50 person mail list. You'll debate me in a 200 person library. You won't debate me at IIDB, where tens of thousands will read your posts. Sounds like you're not too confident in your arguments. It also sounds like you currently want the freedom to attack and offend, as this is one of the very reasons I want a moderated forum.

At any rate, if anyone else wants to assume Doug's position (the argument, not the tail between the legs), please say so.

Sincerely,
Jason

Doug Krueger

DOUG KRUEGER writes:
Gastrich suggested that we debate since he was going to be in Louisiana in May anyway, we should hold a live, onstage debate in my town of Fayetteville, Arkansas. Gastrich started to tell people that I was afraid to debate him if I didn't agree. I agreed to debate him. The debate was scheduled for early May of 2006.

Then in March or April, he cancelled on me, stating that his business in Louisiana was going to keep him too busy to come by Fayetteville to debate me. Fair enough.

Then he said that he wanted to debate me via telephone, and if I didn't debate him it would mean I was afraid of him. But I had had enough. I refused.

So Gastrich has been saying since May that I am "ducking" him and "being a chicken"--afraid to debate him--despite the fact that he was the no-show for our May debate.

In fact, he now cites other reasons for not debating me in May. He now often says that the reason he didn't come to Fayetteville to debate me is that it is a waste of time to debate onstage and only a few people see it when many more can see an IIDB debate. But it was Gastrich who insisted on scheduling a live, onstage debate.

In addition, despite the fact that the debate in Fayetteville was Gastrich's idea, he says (in an e-mail on June 19th) "I decided not to fly into your town, which was 1000 miles off my path, and debate you in a library." Actually, the library was only 400 miles from his destination in Louisiana, according to Mapquest.com. Then, 31 minutes later, Gastrich wrote: "Paying my own way to debate Doug in a Fayetteville library 2000 miles away, no matter how nice, isn't going to cut it." So the library was now 2000 miles away. (With the library traveling at almost 2000 miles per hour, apparently, no wonder Gatrich didn't want to debate me.)

Gastrich also said that my town has no airport. There is one 30 minutes from here.

Those are the reasons he's given. I leave it to the reader to decide why he cancelled.

By the way, on his website, Gastrich wrote:

Perhaps Gastrich was just unable to raise the money to travel to Fayetteville. If so, I don't know about it. He has never given that as a reason he didn't come to debate me.

Jason Gastrich

Just so you know, we should be debating whether or not Jesus lied; not what we are debating. Anyhow . . . my replies are below.

Yes, 400 miles one way. This means 800 miles total. I rounded up.

I estimated that the library in your town is 2000 miles away from my home; not from my destination in Louisiana.

Which airport is that?

Per your request, we can let people decide what they think about that debate that didn't happen, but we will also let them decide about this debate that didn't happen.

Sincerely,
Jason

Doug Krueger

DOUG writes:
Correction: nowhere did Gastrich address my evidence that Jesus had secret teachings and that Jesus kept parts of his teachings from the general public. To this day he has never addressed the substance of my evidence for the John 18:20 problem.

DOUG
On the contrary, another correction is needed. Gastrich refuses to debate me on Errancy (he is resorting merely to evasions now), and he refused to debate me in person. I have proven what needed proving in showing the problem of John 18:20.

Gastrich just wants attention, specifically hits on his website. However, his responses to the contradiction don't merit another debate. He has nothing of substance to add to our previous discussion of this issue.

He's had many chances to rebut me. He couldn't do it. His latest attempts at a resolution are not plausible. Case closed.

Doug Krueger

DOUG
I already asked you this in an e-mail: Why would you fly back to Louisiana instead of flying home? It's still only 400 miles.

DOUG
I don't think I need to revisit this thread.

Bible John

Doug I do not believe we have ever met. But let me intorduce myself.

The names John Wolf and I am the founder and director of Church Education Resource Ministries.

www.cerm.info

CERM has engaged JCSM by phone.

[QUOTE]Jason has done the same to me. He is afraid to debate me on tongues, debt, cessataionalism, etc.. Yes he claims to have a PHD. Jason's PHD is a mail order doctorate.

Jason often makes excuses like this.

Jason is afraid to debate me.


No doubt Jason wants attention.

He can get his attention by letting me blast him on a debate on Tongues.

Jason is afraid of CERM.

Jason knows that CERM is a better ministry than JCSM and has a much superior interface. And I am only getting started!

Lord willing CERM will grow

Maybe Jason did not know

Doug I have and continue to try and help Jason. But Jason has spit on me.

So bare in mind that its not only atheists and or agnostics that Jason spits on. He also spits on his own brothers and sisters.

Jason I am praying for you. I am trying to help you.


John

SonOfFred

I've got a better idea.