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Old 02-12-2008, 02:23 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Amaleq13 View Post
Klaus hasn't shown himself to be terribly interested in actually supporting the many and repeated assertions he makes so I'll let you know that the views he supports are not accepted by very many scholars.
JW:
Try asking him in German.



Joseph
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Old 02-12-2008, 02:45 PM   #12
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Default chronology and eusebius

Chronology is a big word. Are you sure you know what it means? When this word is used in the context "Biblical chronology" you may need to be aware that most researchers, at some point in their haphazard self-introductions to the field of ancient history, stumble across the name "Eusebius".

Any chronology of "Paul's Letters" therefore need to deal with, at some stage in the game, this name. Many scholars in fact actually start with this name and work backwards down that long and winding road toward Paul, who himself was on the road. Happy travelling!

Best wishes,


Pete Brown
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Old 02-12-2008, 08:10 PM   #13
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Hi again, everyone. I have been perusing the net trying to find information on the chronology of Paul's letters, but I'm more confused now than I was when I started. There's a lot of disagreement out there over which letters are genuine and their dates! I'm not interested in apologetics, but I'm pretty new to all this and I'm not familiar enough with biblical scholars to know which ones have a theological ax to grind. So I'm not sure which scholars to disregard and which to value. Can anyone help me out here? Thanks so much for any guidance you can give me.

Sarai
Well, if you want to use the book of Acts as a guide, and assume that the letters are all authentic (except Hebrews), the letters should fall into the following order (there are variations possible):

1 Thess. (ca. 50-51)
2 Thess. (ca. 50-51)
Galatians (ca. 51-52)
1 Cor. (ca. 52-53)
Romans (ca. 56)
1 Tim. (ca. 56)
2 Cor. (ca. 56)
Philemon (ca. 61-63)
Colossians (ca. 61-63)
2 Tim. (ca. 61-63)
Ephesians (ca. 61-63)
Philippians (ca. 61-63)
Titus (ca. ?? - depends on which Nicopolis he wote from)

This is super simplistic, of course. You are aware that some do not acknowledge the pastorals as authentic (1-2 Tim., Titus, maybe Philemon), and that others question Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1-2 Thess. Of the absolutely undisputed (Romans, 1-2 Corinthians, Galatians), many think 2 Cor. is actually several fragments of shorter letters worked up into one.

One school of thought (the so-called "Radical" critics) have pretty much thrown out all of them.

There are passages in some of them that suggest earlier dates than Acts would (mainly the "man of sin" in 2 Thess 2:3, if taken as a reference to Emperor Gaius Caligula's theat to go to war with the Jews to force them to allow him to erect a statue of Zeus in the Jewish temple, around 39-41 CE instead of 50-51 CE).

I'd recommend seeing if you can find Dictionary of Paul and His Letters (or via: amazon.co.uk) (Inter Varsity Press). It is fairly conservative in POV, but it does contain articles that discuss the different dating schemes.

DCH
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:52 AM   #14
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Thank you, Pete, for the suggestion of looking further into Eusebius. I have encountered his name before, and suspected that I would eventually need to tackle him as well. As I mentioned, I am a newcomer to this study, so I am still at the point of just trying to familiarize myself with the letters themselves, which is why I am interested in a "chronology". I'd like to study them in the order in which they were purportedly written.

Hi DCH! Wow, thank you for taking the time to put that list together. I understand that it is the "conservative" view and there is disagreement among scholars over authenticity and dating. (That's what brought me here in the first place! ) I especially find interesting the tidbit you shared about the possibility of dating the letters to the reign of Gaius--is that covered in the book that you recommended?

I'd like to thank everyone who has taken the time and made the effort to help me here. I've printed up almost of ream of research from the suggestions you've made, and certainly have enough to keep me out of trouble for some time to come!

Sarai
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Old 02-13-2008, 02:47 PM   #15
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There is an article on the "Man of Lawlessness and Restraining Power" but it is pretty spare of detail and you can tell the author poo poos the idea that the reference is to Caligula (in fact) or Nero (metaphorically).

You might have better luck Googling the passage (vary the spelling of the abbreviation for Thessalonians) and the name Caligula (no one seems to call him Gaius, his given name, Caligula being his nickname: "little boot").

The restraining power that thwarts this man of sin is sometimes identified with the governor of Syria under Gaius, named Petronius, who out of compassion for the Jewish people and the war that would surely result, stalled until the very last. Enraged, Gaius sent the governor orders to commit suicide for willfully disregarding his express orders, but luckily the orders were delayed by "bad weather" and arrived just after word that Gaius had been assasinated, so Petronius disregarded that order too.

DCH

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Originally Posted by Sarai View Post
Thank you, Pete, for the suggestion of looking further into Eusebius. I have encountered his name before, and suspected that I would eventually need to tackle him as well. As I mentioned, I am a newcomer to this study, so I am still at the point of just trying to familiarize myself with the letters themselves, which is why I am interested in a "chronology". I'd like to study them in the order in which they were purportedly written.

Hi DCH! Wow, thank you for taking the time to put that list together. I understand that it is the "conservative" view and there is disagreement among scholars over authenticity and dating. (That's what brought me here in the first place! ) I especially find interesting the tidbit you shared about the possibility of dating the letters to the reign of Gaius--is that covered in the book that you recommended?

I'd like to thank everyone who has taken the time and made the effort to help me here. I've printed up almost of ream of research from the suggestions you've made, and certainly have enough to keep me out of trouble for some time to come!

Sarai
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