FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-06-2008, 07:22 PM   #91
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman View Post
...
Quote:
Contrast the obvious satire of Lucian (Christians are gullible, taken advantage of by a con man) with the fanciful but still respectful treatment of Christians in the Acts of Philip (angels aid him, revenge is taken on the Jews, Christians win in the end.)
Leaving aside for the moment that it is my contention that Eusebius forged a number of books in the name of Lucian (including Life of Peregrine, Alexander the Prophet, in which he introduces christians)
What is Eusebius' motive here?

Quote:
....

2) Lucian's literature is not considered part of the new testament apochrypha, which is more or less restricted to weird narratives about Jesus and the canonical cast of disciples. These may be perceived to have been created in the epoch 324-394 CE at which time it was politically expedient to kow-tow to the imperial christian regime, and politically seditious to keep, to read, to entertain, or god forbid think of writing any seditious tracts against the power of the Constantinian canon.
...
Most scholars do date most of the apocrypha to the second or third centuries.
Toto is offline  
Old 10-06-2008, 07:40 PM   #92
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Falls Creek, Oz.
Posts: 11,192
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman View Post
...


Leaving aside for the moment that it is my contention that Eusebius forged a number of books in the name of Lucian (including Life of Peregrine, Alexander the Prophet, in which he introduces christians)
What is Eusebius' motive here?
Dear Toto,

Consistent with the forgery into Josephus known as the TF. Eusebius sought priority dates in the patristic literature by inserting references to christianity. The books of Lucian had been around the empire for centuries. Eusebius can now pick up a book by this author demonstrating a mention of christians. Eusebius IMO did the same thing with Julius Africanus, Origen and Porphyry.


Simple forgery.


Quote:
Quote:
....

2) Lucian's literature is not considered part of the new testament apochrypha, which is more or less restricted to weird narratives about Jesus and the canonical cast of disciples. These may be perceived to have been created in the epoch 324-394 CE at which time it was politically expedient to kow-tow to the imperial christian regime, and politically seditious to keep, to read, to entertain, or god forbid think of writing any seditious tracts against the power of the Constantinian canon.
...
Most scholars do date most of the apocrypha to the second or third centuries.
Yes, I am aware of this. Most scholars do date - correctly or incorrectly - most of the apocrypha to the second or third centuries. The basis of the chronology is the Eusebian literature sponsored by Constantine. We have no other monumental, epigraphic or other archaeological evidence to support Eusebius. IMO we are dealing with a fourth century christian origins. The only two available carbon dting citations relating to the new testament corpus and thus christian origins are in fact citations to the new testament apochryphal literature, and are dated 290 CE and 348 CE (plus or minus 60 years). This C14 chronology is not inconsistent with my thesis.

And one additional point here is that the chronology of the Acts of Philip is not second or third centuries but fourth century, and perhaps quite late in the fourth century.


Best wishes,


Pete
mountainman is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:50 AM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.