stephan huller

Rashi comments that because they saw God, they deserved death, but God did not want to mar the rejoicing of the receiving of the Torah.

mountainman

You would not find too much disagreement that this event almost certainly occurred. The questions are WHEN and WHERE did this occur, HOW and WHY, and most importantly WHO was involved in the importation of Plato. Has modern scholarship any hypotheses on any of these questions?


Plato and Pythagoras both saw something divine in the harmony of musical strings and the mathematics behind the harmony. The supreme Platonic divinity had many names but itself was referred to as an inexpressible essence. Some of those names were "The One", "The All" and "The Good", which as we all know by now, in Greek, was "CHRESTOS".


A chronological context for the authorship is still required.



So where does Plato fit in?

stephan huller

mm

So you really want to add Philo and Marqe to the Eusebian conspiracy theory?

stephan huller

For those who aren't familiar with the original musical reference for this post:



I think it was Peter Tosh or Bunny Wailer in the original who says the line 'mighty God is a living man.' I also never understand why Rasta women look so unsexy. That's a really bad look. It always was.

stephan huller

For those who aren't familiar with the original musical reference for this post:



I think it was Peter Tosh or Bunny Wailer in the original who says the line 'mighty God is a living man.' I also never understand why Rasta women look so unsexy. That's a really bad look. It always was.

UPDATE - I never knew that was a Bunny Wailer song. You learn something new everyday thanks to Google. Of course they are talking about Him:

stephan huller

Speaking of celebrity religious interests, has anyone ever seen this Beatles animated send off of the spiritual interests of the group c. 1967? My son finds it quite hilarious (but then again he's five):



Is it just me or is the George Harrison voice the absolutely worst imitation of a celebrity in a cartoon in the history of animation?

Chili

Well it is rather obviuos that if you see God you are not it and that is a result of fornication.

sotto voce

Indeed it was. Greeks began to convert to Judaism in synagogues all over the known world, particularly as Greek often met Jew, due to Alexander's conquests, and the exile of Jews. There are indications that Greek thought, which of course was by no means a unity, reacted to a unique and compelling influence that was, in the view of the Jew Disraeli, to conquer Europe and change its name to Christendom- a Greek expression of a Jewish concept. Plato had his influence, of course, but only within the framework of the perceptions of ancestor Abram.

There were apostates even at Sinai. There were drop-outs all along the way. If to be educated was to be revisionist, the Jerusalem Sanhedrin was uneducated. No Greek, Egyptian or Eastern influence succeeded in Zion, in Jerusalem, the City of David, the City of Truth, the City of Yahweh, the only place, in this context, that mattered, the only place to which Jews from all over the diaspora returned on commemorative occasions. That city remained stubbornly devoted to literal Moses and to sacrificial Temple worship until the Romans finally razed both city and Temple; with enormous loss of Jewish life in defending the 'eternal' tradition of Abraham himself, as Jews believed. This notion is as wide of the mark as one can get.

That's not what the Torah says, anywhere at all. This hypothesis is absurdity, a total misconception, because its premise is as far-fetched as it is possible to fetch!

stephan huller

But sotto you act like the 'apostates' were some how your enemies. These 'apostates' ultimately developed into Christianity. Why don't you see that? It was Plato who made softened the mean old Jewish god. You don't end up with Jesus if Jews don't end up reading Plato and Greek philosophy. Germany had a similar effect on Jews in the modern era (but perhaps not as dramatic). One could argue - and German Jews do argue (at least until recent times) that those Jews who resided in Germany were a different breed. I know of stories in Israel where German Jews separated themselves from Jews of other cultures or at least looked down upon them even in communal institutions like kibbutzes. It is wrong to underestimate the role that outsiders had in shaping Jews and Judaism. Look at the Persian and Babylonian influences on the Pentateuch.

sotto voce

So do we have a unilateral decision here that Judaism is the only true religion? Or, at any rate, it cannot be Christianity?

Let's not ignore the point that, if some Jews were persuaded by Greeks, and they undoubtedly were, there is nothing at all remarkable in that. Throughout their history, the Children of Israel were tempted by whoever surrounded them, and some, nay, many, gave in to temptation. There were, after all, not so many tribes left out of twelve for the Romans to massacre or scatter. But there was 'a remnant' left that at least maintained the outward form of religion as laid down by Moses, unchanged in every way possible.

Which is your story? That Plato made deity supernal, or a soft touch? Because neither tale is credible. That confounded descendant of David spoke of hell like no-one before or since.

Benjamin the Israeli was no fool, so hear ye him.