Gawen

This part throws me:
How do you get from God exists and Jesus was a nice guy to hell and punishment exists? Please don't tell me the bible tells you so. Not to mention it would be rather redundant of an answer.

And this too:
Your own handbook tells you faith is believing in something not seen. Most people call this being gullible.

Oh...may as well go the whole way:
Yes, that person would believe, I grant you that. But to believe due to fear is wrong in my opinion. Surely you must by now realise that Xtianity and Islam are religions based on fear?

Follower of Christ

Which is one reason I wont preach.
I know I cant rationalize it.
It all makes no ''logical'' sense.

Ive been in more than one heated debate with a christian who was trying to make it some arguement we could win with logic and common sense.

A Man-God coming down from the sky to die for my wrongdoings, to sacrifice Himself TO Himself for MY transgressions against Him that He knew about before I was even born makes NO sense to me in my natural mind.

I think thats why I can sympathize with the nonchristian a little more than some do and dont usually bother to reallly argue with you all.
I totally understand your POV.

God has to reveal, He has to draw.
Otherwise its just a bunch of nonsense to a person.

Follower of Christ

God loves mankind but God is not this sweet old senile man sitting quietly playing checkers and mumbling to himself.
God is holy and will judge men.
Yes.
The bible says it.
Jesus taught hell more than anyone.
What shall I do, lie like some do and say He didnt?
Or fool myself like others do and pretend its not in the text?
I cant.
Its in there and plain as day.
fine then.
Im gullible.
But I hardly think anyone but whoever wrote the bible will get one over on me.



From youre POV, Id agree that you see it that way.
I dont fear tho. So I cant really agree that fear is what its about.
When I was born again, I never even worried about hell myself.
I felt the Lord drawing for over a year before it finally happened.
Id tell the little story, but Ive had bout all I can take today

Jedi Mind Trick

And will this "fortunate" one need to walk on egg shells for all eternity lest his free will take him the way of Lucifer?

Biff the unclean

Acording to Jesus, Hell is the answer. No one has even heard about Hell until Jesus announces it's institution. Anyone who exercises their free will and does not become a member of His flock, a sheep as it were, is damned to Hell.

History has been filled with the very important who judge whole populationas and torture or kill them. Decent people have always stood up to these monsters. They do not worship them. This instance is no different.
If you believe that the God of the Bible exists and has set billions of your fellow men to the pit of Hell then morality demands that you stand up to Him and oppose His actions

That's what was called, during WW II, being a "collaborator"

Biff the unclean

It does make logical sense. It's a con job. You have to believe the same as you have to believe any con to be taken by it. If people didn't believe religion would not be a multi-billion dollar business in this country. A business that has no product and delivers no services (you'll get the pay off...AFTER YOU ARE DEAD).
They can't give you evidence because there is none...just like any other fraud. They feed you BS and tell you that the more gullible you are the better (for their bank accounts). "Gullibility can move mountains." Just don't ask to see a mountain moved or you lack "faith"

smithy

Peace to you FC.

You have fowarded detailed written text to indicate you
know the content of the Bible and their intepretions, I do
envy you. Sorry for not keeping them in here, but I have
read it.
In here I like to give an input as best as I can due to my
text knowledge limitation, but you have to work them out
for what I have in mind.

1
Babies survived by the mother's milk. This is the default
food while they are babies. But once they are strong enough
they (we) eat different type of foods.
Milk is still very good for us even now, but for a start
it is a default food (other soft food wich I don't know).

2.
Children if not cared or guided by their guardians their
action can be detrimental for themselves. But they have
bad habit to ignore as they don't understand, of course because
they are children.
Therefore beside loving care, threatening with consequences
are necessary, and occassionaly the guardians have no
choice left but to do it although they don't want to.

3
We are both are monotheist, certainly I am.
To say that heaven or hell or anything else as eternal will
creates a confrontation with my natural belief. In Islam
this is called "associating", the worst sin we can commit and
nothing is greater than that.
When I say God or Allah I do mean The God. Ilah is arabic word
for god, any god. Al Ilah wich became Allah is The God, nothing
before him (it) nothing equaling him (it) and nothing after him (it)
in any sense of any understanding from any knowledge you can
imagine. God can not creates another God.

4
There are for different sates where it can be hell or heaven.
a.In this world.
b.In the grave.
c.In the "waiting" state.
d.In the final hell and heaven as we understand it today.
the last state is the one I am disputing as we understand
the rest easily as temporary states.

5
In the railway stations and many other places in the past they
have entrance or gates or doors to enter the premises by
using "turnstile" that gives ticking sound.
Using that turnstile as an example, what or where is the proper
word to indicate "closed" and "open" position for that path way?

6
We can't stand too much heat now because that is the way our
physical body is made. Physical elements can only effecting their
kind. Will it possible for this fire to have any effect in the spiritual
state?

7
I have posed self questioning and I answered them. .
We are both believe in angelic beings, the can do anything
creatures without fear of any consequences as per Islamic term,
but a branch of them are evil.
In your opinion, who were created first, the human or the
Angels (good and bad), and why one procceed the other?
Why is God so powerless against some them who are
rebellious and destructive and openly challenged God decission
and prepared to face all the consequences?

Thankyou for your time FC and may God bless you for your
earnest effort.
{Deleted}

Biff the unclean

The con job goes on. Notice the use of faux Elizabethian English in the blurb above. If the supermarket clerk started to talk like that while she was checking you out, you would think she had gone crazy. :rolling:

Jeremy Pallant

I have a couple of questions for you, FoC.

1) Suppose your god doesn't reveal himself? Not exactly my fault that I don't believe in him, then is it?

2) What is the mechanism your god uses to reveal himself?

3) How would the person being revealed to determine that it is your god doing the revealing, and not some other god or Satan?

4) How do you know Satan isn't actually the good guy?