Freethought & Rationalism Archive

S.C.Carlson · 03-23-2005, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Although I still think this is probable, I am now less ready to rule out the possibility that the Slavonic Josephus has been (indirectly) influenced by the much earlier Latin text of Pseudo-Hegesippus

Noted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Isidore is the first to quote the TF in a letter there is a previous quotation by Jerome in 'De Viris Illustribus' plus Rufinus's translation of the whole Church History into Latin a few years later.

Quite right. At any rate, both Jerome and Rufinus post-date Pseudo-Hegesippus and both admit their dependence on Eusebius.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

(Could you clarify what you mean by 'interpolated bits ? I'm assuming you mean the three clauses that Meier regards as interpolations but I'm not sure. )

I mean definitely the first of Meier's three ("if it is proper to call him a man"). On the others("He was the Christ" and "on the third day, etc."), I'm still wavering over whether the entire clause was added or a more neutral/negative version was edited along the lines that you described later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

IF the text known to Origen (not necessarily uninterpolated) agreed with Eusebius except it did not have 'he was the Christ' then IIUC there would be no need to connect Pseudo-Hegesippus to Caesarea.

Hence my second-thoughts.

rlogan · 03-24-2005, 01:13 PM

I found this to be an outstanding discussion:

http://www.socinian.org/files/TestimoniumFlavianum.pdf

Most, if not all of the subject matter that has been brought up by the varsity squad here is discussed in this piece.

In terms of methodology I think one of the more critical features in this paper is the consideration of these three items simultaneously:

1) The TF

2) The James Passage

3) John the Baptist

If you are still monitoring this discussion, Peter - I think it essential to good scholarship in the matter.

As a member of the junior varsity, I'm still a little shakey on Pseudo-Hegesippus, old Russian sources and what-not. But I thought this was a delightful read that was comprehensive in all such matters.

The author is Dr. Marian Hillar, director of the Center for Philosophy and Socinian Studies.

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03-24-2005, 01:13 PM	#42
rlogan Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Alaska Posts: 9,159	I found this to be an outstanding discussion: http://www.socinian.org/files/TestimoniumFlavianum.pdf Most, if not all of the subject matter that has been brought up by the varsity squad here is discussed in this piece. In terms of methodology I think one of the more critical features in this paper is the consideration of these three items simultaneously: 1) The TF 2) The James Passage 3) John the Baptist If you are still monitoring this discussion, Peter - I think it essential to good scholarship in the matter. As a member of the junior varsity, I'm still a little shakey on Pseudo-Hegesippus, old Russian sources and what-not. But I thought this was a delightful read that was comprehensive in all such matters. The author is Dr. Marian Hillar, director of the Center for Philosophy and Socinian Studies.

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