Jeremy_the _Atheist

My first Quesiton can be found in this thread:

Serious Question for Christians

Actually I have several questions for those that would answer, "yes, I would want to know it if God does not exist," my question is (1) Do you recognize that you are fallible and that if is possible you might have made a mistake in your decision to believe in God (2) Do you recognize that your decision to believe in God might bias the way that you look at the arguments and that that bias might lead you to the wrong conclusions? (3) how much time have you spent actually looking over the arguments of the other side?

For those that answer, "no I would want to know it and I would continue to believe in god no matter what," I would not consider you to be an honest seeker of truth. Such people, I have no desire to engage is any kind of discourse on matters of anything beyond the mundane. These questions are not asked to them.

I meet Christians all the time that even though they might claim to want to know the truth, it seems it has never occurred to them that they might have actually made a mistake. Admitting to the possibility does not mean admitting that you have made a mistake. I openly and willingly acknowldge that I just might have made a mistake in my decision to not believe in god. But I don't think I have made a mistake. If I did, I would change my mind.

I have met plenty of Christians that try to witness but have spent no time at all looking at the arguments for the other side. I often quite easily leave Christians without an answer to some of my questions and arguments. They often had assumed that they had the upperhand but quickly learned that I knew more Church history, more literature, more Bible, even more Christian pop literature than themselves. Plus I knew a long list of arguments they'd never heard of.

Also I run into people all the time that, upon learning of my atheism, start by saying "Well then how did we get here? you don't actually believe in evolution do you?" They then proceed to tell me some straw man mumbo jumbo they pretend is evolution and try to tell me why it can't work. I always respond, "your right, the real world doesn't work like that and anyone can see that. But what you are talking about isn't the Theory of Evolution, but a bogus version of it. Use your head, man. Do you think anyone is actually stupid enough to not see the holes in what you are calling evolution? You really ought to learn how evolution really works if you are going to try to argue against it."

When someone is attempting to witness to an atheist, it is hard to take the person serious when the atheist takes their god more seriously then they do. I have considered the question of the existence of God long and hard. when I come accross someone that has only minimal knowledge on the subject, it's hard to believe that they even take it serious at all.

HelenM

Bear in mind that it's not just a matter of accepting an intellectual argument for Christians who consider themselves to have a personal relationship with Jesus.

Jeremy, how much time do you spend thinking "Hey, I wonder if Christians are right - maybe I should be more open to what they say?" Practically speaking, I think we all have fairly settled opinions and it's hard to really be open to a viewpoint which contradicts your currently held one. People don't easily change their minds - or reinterpreta significant part of their experience, which also would have to happen for anyone with the afore-mentioned personal relationship to decide God does not exist.

Helen

Rational BAC

OK

I believe I am fallible (as we all are) and it is possible I am wrong in my belief. ---------in the same way that you said it is possible that you are wrong in your non-belief.

I also believe that I might be biased in my thinking just as you might be biased in your thinking.

Been on this forum for a while so am pretty well acquainted with "the other side". Those arguments work very well against fundies, but have very little effect on me since I agree with most of them without losing my faith. Faith would like reason and facts and logic to support it, but these things are not really necessary.

Hope that helps some.

theoscholar

I am fallible. As a fallible human being, it is possible for me to err on any decision I make.

My worldview is closely linked to my faith. In this way, it is often difficult for me not to bias my perspective. However, I do try earnestly to listen to reasonable arguments from other perspectives. I have already experienced how my bias indeed has lead me astray. I'd like to think that I am open to change when change seems most reasonable.

I have recently become intrigued by the filed of apologetics. I have a background in literature, philosophy, and theology. I know less aboput science, but I take it in like a sponge when I understand it.

I have heard many arguments against the existence of god(s). I have listened respectfully. I continue to do so.

I am equally disturbed by modern evangelical Christianity today. I encounter the same spirit and attitudes that you do, and I am sickened by it. Christians who refuse to think through their beliefs will, I'm afraid, find that when it's all over, they didn't have anything substantial in their hands. Nothing you have said here is a surprise, since I have seen it firsthand myself. Just know, for now, that not all "christians" are like what you have described.

Jeremy_the _Atheist

Yeah, I know. I live in the same city you do so chances are good I'm familiar with the same variety.

theoscholar

There are thinking Christians, though. You just have to know where to find them. Incidentally, to comment on something you said in another thread... Faith in Christianity is a matter of the head as well as the heart. It's not just a heart issue. If that were the case, none would be Christians.

Smidlee

I know that God exists and know Him personally so to you either I'm insane or a liar or I truely know God .
1) I know that I'm infallible and know very little . So I didn't put my trust in myself or my limited knowledge and wisdom as some do. ( since most of our knowledge comes from other sources not first- hand)
2) I believe ( TRUST) God and His promises not just believing
that He exists. Just believing God exists is just as useless as being an atheist ( if not more). " Thou believeth that there is one God: thou doest well: the devils also believe and tremble." James 2:19
3)I did come from the other side . I was lost as I could be running from God as fast as I could But Thank God he find me and redeemed me.
p.s i can see why you lefted the church since being an atheist is easyer than being a hypocrite ( pretending you knew God ) trying to be something you are not. (Also unlike you Jeremy I wasn't raised in church and was Saved before ever being in a church. I was a christian for over 10 years before I found a church home.)

Rational BAC

I agree with Smidlee--

Belief--faith in God--- does come from the heart. When push comes to shove the rational mind has little or nothing to do with it. And that is what atheists have such a hard time comprehending.

nessa20x

quote
I know that God exists and know Him personally so to you either I'm insane or a liar or I truely know God


I think it could also be that you have been deluded, have read "evidence" that is misleading, that you really have never studied the oppositions claims and evidence, are in denial, prefer to believe because it is nicer, etcetc.

There are lots of reasons why people believe in gods, not just being crazy, lying, or that they truly exist.

Rational BAC

Or it could come from something way deep inside oneself----something inexplicable, something that a "rational" atheist could never comprehend.

So be it.