Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ronin · 01-01-2008, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geetarmoore

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin

While it really is a good primer on what to look for and where to start, I find it to be more helpful to the "mystics" and "new agers" than to atheists and skeptics concerned with empirical evidence.

I'm not sure why people cite 'mystics' and 'new agers' so often. It's not as if mysticism is presented as 'truth' in these books; It's presented as a historical reality of religion. One could argue that Sam Harris' book contains more active promotion of mysticism than Acharya's do.

I have no comparison model as I've not read anything by Sam Harris.

Her usage of theosophical sources (not to mention her pseudonym) all call toward this sort of nuance in my readings...not to offend, just an observation.

Her site way back when had some Sex as Super consciousness essays supporting some sort of biological spiritual mysticism and the additional appeal she seems to have regarding "fortean events" supports my own personal opinion regarding her appeal to mystics and new agers.

I can't speak for why others seem to cite that so often as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geetarmoore

As has been previously submitted in this thread, I think that it has appeal to conspiracy theorists more than anyone. I posted to her webforum regarding zeitgeist, and the fact that it didn't help their cause at all to be included along with part 2 of the movie, which is totally bonkers and has been debunked solidly literally hundreds of times. There appear to be a few members of that forum who buy the conspiracy stories hook, line and sinker - despite solid, overwhelming evidence against.

However - I personally think that the 'conspiracy' part of 'The Christ Conspiracy' is underplayed in the book. The title is unfortunate, as it puts it in a bad association with skeptical thinkers from the get-go.

Well, I disagree.

The "conspiracy" part was a common theme and her bibliography of sources fully supports it.

Again, I'm not saying her work isn't purposeful and a great primer. I'm addressing the OP.

Geetarmoore · 01-01-2008, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin

Well, I disagree.

The "conspiracy" part was a common theme and her bibliography of sources fully supports it.

Again, I'm not saying her work isn't purposeful and a great primer. I'm addressing the OP.

I guess I can see 'conspiracy' in her work, just as I can it in anyone who might suggest that text was changed for theological reasons, 'heretical' ideas were stomped out ,and competing ideas were overtaken with similar Christian ideas. From my reading of her book (a few years ago) I read her conspiracy not in some mass, wide reaching cover-up, but more of a gradual evolution of ideas leading to Constantine, where things were firmed up quite quickly. I can read the same ideas in any number of scholars who are considered mainstream or otherwise 'scholarly'.

Malachi151 · 01-01-2008, 12:28 PM

BTW, libraries are there for a reason. I wouldn't buy one of her books. I have checked out SOG from the local library.

Ronin · 01-01-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geetarmoore

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin

Well, I disagree.

The "conspiracy" part was a common theme and her bibliography of sources fully supports it.

Again, I'm not saying her work isn't purposeful and a great primer. I'm addressing the OP.

I guess I can see 'conspiracy' in her work, just as I can it in anyone who might suggest that text was changed for theological reasons, 'heretical' ideas were stomped out ,and competing ideas were overtaken with similar Christian ideas. From my reading of her book (a few years ago) I read her conspiracy not in some mass, wide reaching cover-up, but more of a gradual evolution of ideas leading to Constantine, where things were firmed up quite quickly. I can read the same ideas in any number of scholars who are considered mainstream or otherwise 'scholarly'.

Do you have your copy?

I just dug mine out of my "Katrina" box and have confirmed a few things regarding the "mysticism/new age" and "conspiracy" issue.

The book itself is listed as Religion/New Age by Adventures Unlimited press and the introduction is given by Kenn Thomas, the publisher of Steamshovel press.

While neither are definite links to such mindsets, Thomas does give a quote from Acharya S as follows:

Quote:

"The believers/theists feel my views are intolerant," she writes, "while the nonbelievers/atheists object to the mysticism and perceive me as creating new beliefs...While I do not wish to live in a world where everyone is deluded by blind belief, I also do not want to totally dismiss all imagination or color".

The back of the book (if you have it handy) reads:

Quote:

In this highly controversial and explosive book, archaeologist, historian, mythologies, and linguist Acharya A marshals an enormous amount of startling evidence to demonstrate that Christianity and the story of Jesus Christ were created by members of various secret societies, mystery schools and religious in order to unify the Roman empire under one state religion. In making such a fabrication, this multinational cabal drew upon a multitude of myths and rituals that already existed long before the Christian era, and reworked them for centuries into the story and religion passed down today.

So, you see, the mystic/new age/conspiracy-theorist slant is strong in her works.

Not that that is necessarily a bad thing or a good thing, however, it is quite apparent that is the case.

Ronin · 01-01-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

Malachi, I hope you persist and eventually write a full criticism and post it online. Criticisms of Acharya S come mostly from Biblicist Christians, and there needs to be a greater showing from critical scholars.

Freethinkaluva, you have to be the greatest loyalist of any historical scholar I have ever seen. If you have an extra copy of any of Acharya S's books, then I'll give you my address and you can send it to me as a New Year's present. I promise I'll start reading it as soon as I get it. I have read parts of Christ Conspiracy, because it used to be published online as an e-book, but I can't find it anymore, and her bibliography was left out. I am a poor man, and I am not yet willing to fund Acharya's publisher.

I'll send you mine, Abe, if you would just return it after you've read it. I have an extensive library of assorted works collected over the years of comparative study and would like for my children to have it available as they become more and more interested.

Send me an email with your address if you'd really like to read it.

:wave:

Freethinkaluva · 01-01-2008, 01:07 PM

Malachi151/rationalrevolution/R.G. Price, what exactly are your credentials anyway? What fields of biblical training have you studied? Do you speak/write any other languages? What college did you go to, if any? And what does the R.G. stand for in your name - I can’t find it anywhere on your website.

Solitary Man · 01-01-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freethinkaluva

Malachi151/rationalrevolution/R.G. Price, what exactly are your credentials anyway? What fields of biblical training have you studied? Do you speak/write any other languages? What college did you go to, if any? And what does the R.G. stand for in your name - I can’t find it anywhere on your website.

That's funny. On Acharya S.'s site Truth Be Known, she seemed quite against the asking of credentials, saying that most often they're ad hominem attacks and pointed out that the deciphering of Linear B was made by an amateur.

Just saying.

Geetarmoore · 01-01-2008, 01:29 PM

I actually had forgotten who the publisher was - you are correct. I suppose it's possible that her '...while the nonbelievers/atheists object to the mysticism and perceive me as creating new beliefs..." could have been about orally pleasing her publisher, but I don't know. You've made a valid point. I honestly can't remember any such belief prognosis being extended in the book itself; But, I read most of it late-night when I was tired so I might have missed some stiff.. There was a chapter at the end that I didn't read, though. (something about a global civilization??? It looked to ridiculous to be of interest to me.)

I had also forgot that Acharya argues for quite a very late dating for the Gospels, presumably to argue that Constantine 'made the whole thing up', but she relies on the existence of mystery cults in other areas that constitute prototype man-god churches...

Thanks for your dialog.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin

Do you have your copy?

I just dug mine out of my "Katrina" box and have confirmed a few things regarding the "mysticism/new age" and "conspiracy" issue.

The book itself is listed as Religion/New Age by Adventures Unlimited press and the introduction is given by Kenn Thomas, the publisher of Steamshovel press.

While neither are definite links to such mindsets, Thomas does give a quote from Acharya S as follows:

The back of the book (if you have it handy) reads:

Quote:

In this highly controversial and explosive book, archaeologist, historian, mythologies, and linguist Acharya A marshals an enormous amount of startling evidence to demonstrate that Christianity and the story of Jesus Christ were created by members of various secret societies, mystery schools and religious in order to unify the Roman empire under one state religion. In making such a fabrication, this multinational cabal drew upon a multitude of myths and rituals that already existed long before the Christian era, and reworked them for centuries into the story and religion passed down today.

So, you see, the mystic/new age/conspiracy-theorist slant is strong in her works.

Not that that is necessarily a bad thing or a good thing, however, it is quite apparent that is the case.

Freethinkaluva · 01-01-2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

"That's funny. On Acharya S.'s site Truth Be Known, she seemed quite against the asking of credentials, saying that most often they're ad hominem attacks and pointed out that the deciphering of Linear B was made by an amateur."

You've missed her point and it is totally irrelevant here anyway.

What are the credentials of Malachi151/rationalrevolution/R.G. Price ? I don't see anything on his website - no degrees in anything.

Freethinkaluva · 01-01-2008, 01:40 PM

Folks could actually read "Acharya's Frequently Asked Questions (F.A.Q) "
http://forums.truthbeknown.com/viewt...er=asc&start=0

<edit> I've started a thread at Acharya's forum about this one -

"Irrational hate for Acharya"
http://forums.truthbeknown.com/viewtopic.php?t=1511

;

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

01-01-2008, 12:28 PM	#53
Malachi151 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 8,674	BTW, libraries are there for a reason. I wouldn't buy one of her books. I have checked out SOG from the local library.

01-01-2008, 01:07 PM	#56
Freethinkaluva Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: USA Posts: 78	Malachi151/rationalrevolution/R.G. Price, what exactly are your credentials anyway? What fields of biblical training have you studied? Do you speak/write any other languages? What college did you go to, if any? And what does the R.G. stand for in your name - I can’t find it anywhere on your website.

01-01-2008, 01:40 PM	#60
Freethinkaluva Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: USA Posts: 78	Folks could actually read "Acharya's Frequently Asked Questions (F.A.Q) " http://forums.truthbeknown.com/viewt...er=asc&start=0 <edit> I've started a thread at Acharya's forum about this one - "Irrational hate for Acharya" http://forums.truthbeknown.com/viewtopic.php?t=1511 ;

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.