Sheshbazzar

What is a "spiritual body"? Did your Paul think the writers of the Gospels were "idiots"?

Diogenes the Cynic

1. You'd have to ask Paul, but he basically made the analogy of planting seeds that decay and grow back as plants. He said that physical bodies rotted and a "spiritual body" (σῶμα πνευματικόν) came out (1 Corinthians 15:36-44).
2. Paul never heard of the Canonical Gospels. He died before any of them were written.

aa5874

You should familiarize yourself with the NT Canon.

I don't want to hear what you have IMAGINED.

You keep inventing stories about your Jesus that cannot be found in any extant sources of antiquity.

You might as well burn all the Existing Codices.

judge

Thank you for yet another intelligent thread. I'm sure Bart Ehrman hopes he never has to deal with anyone of your calibre (seriously)

Sheshbazzar

Then 'Paul' wasn't very aware of the workings of nature. Any farmer or anyone who has gardened and worked with seeds knows that seeds that decay or rot do not grow back as plants. They stay dead. Permanently.
And you know this how? From where did your 'Paul' derive his reference to the ritual of The Last Supper? (1 Cor 11:23-26)

Diogenes the Cynic

I am not presenting them to argue them as actual history, just pointing out that they are at least as historically plausible as mythicist arguments, and I would argue that they are more so, and more parsimonious as well.

This religious movement had a Jewish origin. Personality cults can arise, and have arisen not only in Judaism, but even in modern Christianity (David Koresh). It's one variable we know can emerge from within established traditions and create idiosyncratic sectarian bubbles which are sometimes profoundly at odds with the traditions they emerged from. It is sure as hell not normal in Christianity for a pastor to announce that he is, himself, Jesus Christ, yet Koresh managed to do just that and get people to believe him.

Personalities are very powerful in religion. We have seen them create idiosyncratic cell movements within established traditions many times. One characteristic of these kinds of movements is that they are totally rejected by the vast majority of the rest of the established tradition.

Christianity had a Jewish origin. That has to be dealt with.

Diogenes the Cynic

Of course not. So what?
All modern scholarship.
Paul himself says he got it from the voices in his head.

Bernard Muller

to Doug Shaver,
Yes, this is true, my bad. That's what the gospelers tried to establish, despite the fact he was welcome as a King by some and after that, made the disturbances in the temple, which, in these days, would be enough to put him on a cross.
But that proves my point. The gospelers tried to turn things around: from a forced crucifixion to a voluntary one.

steve_bnk

Some consider hypothesizing an HJ as a source for the mythical tales as a defacto validation of Chritianity and react strongly to anything but an outright fiction with no basis in reality for any aspect.

Irrational IMO. JC probably fits the profile of what were likely a number of wandering charismatic rabais.

We have faith healers and those who believe it today. What I find is an absolute unshakble faith in faith healing based on modern stories never witnessed first hand. Particular stoies become prominet and get circulated by word of mouth.

There are people today who belive in levitation but have never seen it. The Transcendental Meditation people used to offer intro classes in levitation. People sitting on cushions trying to pull themselvbes off the ground. They paid money for it.



We have such myth and tales today, certainly rumors and stories circulated back then. Many taken at face value.

Sheshbazzar

He didn't know shit about what he was talking about.
If they accept a HJ, they don't know shit about what they are talking about.
So your 'Paul' was nuts. (but that didn't keep him from borrowing material from The Gospel stories.)