Naked Ape

God does not say much, owing largely to the fact that he does not, in fact, exist. The words ascribed to god are as convincing and real as words ascribed to santa claus. Ho Ho Ho.
Evidence of paternity please? Please start by proving that your god exists and can father human children.
I also assume that everyone took a piss after all that drinking, but the bible doesn't explicitly say they did. Does this indicate to you that no-one urinated over the entire course of the wedding?

Imagine the following:
"At his sisters wedding, Billy-Bob drank a whole bottle of Jack Daniels, and then he shotgunned beer until the cooler was empty."
So Billy-Bob was drunk?
"I didn't say he was drunk, I said Billy-Bob drank a whole bottle of Jack Daniels, and then he shotgunned beer until the cooler was empty."
It sounds sort of stupid, doesn't it?

Cheers,

Naked Ape

funinspace

Inquisitie01,

I too would like to see how you address this:
in terms of a total banning of alcohol. How do you explain the above verses don't mean alcohol? I'm not suggesting that there is any approval of drunkenness. But certainly drinking alcohol by the masses was acceptable? Or do you even awknowledge that one can have a drink or two without being drunk (i.e. drunk: of the kind that leads to foolishness and such).

inquisitive01

Thank you for your opinion, but I can imagine quite a bit (only) IF I choose to. To both you and diana, I believe the links below (as stated earlier) address the issue of "wine" in the Bible sufficiently. I understand they are a bit long, but they are still quite thorough, nonetheless. Here they are again for your convenience:

http://www.andrews.edu/~samuele/book...e_bible/3.html

http://www.andrews.edu/~samuele/book...e_bible/4.html

Magus55

Who says drinking alcohol is a sin? Being drunk is a sin, not having a glass of wine on occasion. Jesus drank wine at passover.

chapka

Surprisingly many American Christian denominations, most notably many baptists and all Mormons. Also the Prohibition Party and the WCTU, both of whom are still around.

That's exactly the argument I've been making. However, inquisitive01's apparent conflation of drinking and drunkenness mean he's unlikely to appreciate the distinction.

Naked Ape

Ah yes, a long winded explanation of how the author can't tell the difference between preserved and fresh fruit.
Strange, but all the winemasters that I met last week in the Okanagan Valley have a background in bio-chemistry and not theology. Perhaps that explains why all their wine contains alcohol. They all tell me that yeast eats sugar and excretes alchohol and carbon dioxide.

Bacchiocchi's long screeds are focused more on linguistic smoke and mirrors, and rather light on the bio-chemistry. This is exactly the sort of misguided applogetics that make certain christians seem retarded.

Given that pot plants bear seed, and are therefore "yours for food", are hash brownies OK?
That seed thing is excellent advice from your allmighty one, except for all the poisonous shit out there that bears seed.


Cheers,

Naked Ape

funinspace

Well, I read the pages even though I'm not debating the capacity to preserve grape juice. It was actually quite interesting in that part...Thanks.

But, the sub-link that had the tirade against alcohol itself, that spinned real hard to explain that Jesus' made better grape juice would make a 7th Day Adventist proud. Not that I haven't seen versions of this before. However, there are thousands of verses available, and NOT a single one says "THOW SHALL NOT DRINK ALCOHOL". Funny how that is. It found room to condemn homosexuality in no uncertain terms (though I disagree with the xian sense of morality here). But it couldn't find room for this little itty bitty tiny injunction. It's because your trinity group didn't have a problem with moderation. I'm always confounded that it is that hard to see. Is it a sin to eat over 4 ounces of meat because the NT comments on gluttony; or to abstain from any form of sex outside of kid production, because the NT spends allot of energy condemning all sorts of sexual things; or condemning any form of wealth because the NT spends allot of energy condemning greed?

Graculus

Did you read those methods? None of them are actually conducive to producing juice from the preserved fruit. Salting, dessicating, storing with syrup and alcohol... BTW, do you know what "must" is?
This is generally refered to as "grasping at straws"

BTW, I have some familiarity with "pre-modern" food preservation. Ever eaten jugged hare?

inquisitive01

I know the difference between a few sips of an alcoholic beverage and getting drunk on that beverage. Therefore, your interpretation of my "apparent conflation of drinking and drunkenness" is incorrect. Once again, if you drink without getting drunk, that is not against what the Bible says. If you get drunk (buzzed/intoxicated) on what you drink, that IS against what the Bible says.


Funinspace, your welcome. I thought it was quite interesting, too. In case you're also wondering, I know the Bible does not say anything against just drinking alcohol without getting intoxicated (drunk). However, it definitely speaks against getting intoxicated (drunk). Plus, if you've ever seen gluttony, then you know that one will know it when he/she sees it.


Graculus, what more can be said? If this is not what you wanted to see, I can't help it. You all did suggest that none of the "wine" in the Bible could be plain ole' grape juice, didn't you?



Grasping at straws? I don't think so. You can think so if you wish.


Naked Ape, you can question Dr. Bacchiocchi's credentials (sarcasm: would have never guessed that would have happened ) IF you choose to do so. You can also eat pot seeds IF you choose to do so.

inquisitive01

Funny you should mention poisonous things here in this thread. I suppose you've never heard of alcohol poisoning (and death from it)?