runningduck

In many of my debates or disscussions with Xians I always bring up the question of fairness. How can it be fair to send people to hell without them having the same experiences as someone else? We all grow up differntly and experice the world differently how can we be held accountable for something we have no control over (our experiences)? We are obvisouly not held accountable for our experiences but don't those seem to shape who we are and what we belive? How about someone who has never heard of Christ or presented with an accurate view of Xianity? It says in the Bible that the only way to heaven in through Christ. This is one of my biggest, if not they biggest problems with Xianity. It just does not seem fair to me. Talking with Xians they seem to always say everyone does have a choice (I argue an unfair one). I guess I am just looking for your guys thoughts on the matter, Xians and athesists alike.

The Last Man

I have the same debate with some of my "saved" friends. I maintain that we are shaped by our experiences (esp. in our formative years). Am I to be held accountable for my parents not being devout believers (luckily for me)? This had a huge impact on my lack of religious belief. After having several of these doctrinal conversations, I have come to the realization that our skeptical minds are simply wired differently than the people who believe. Where people of faith see truth and certainty, skeptics see only questions and discrepancies.

On the subject of hell, I think it is absolutely evil and vindictive and certainly isn't characteristic of a loving god. It's obvious that hell is a superstitious human constuct meant to scare people into joining religious movements.

Badfish

Well for those that haven't heard the gospel will be judged according to the law, and the way I undestand that is according to moral law, I don't think I would be alone in saying that it seems a certain standard of morality is instilled and part of our nature.

Hell, for a person with a good heart but doesn't believe for whatever reason (I think The Last Mans idea of being wired different may not be so far fetched), eternal hell does not seem fair.

Yahzi

Then the best thing the Christians could do is shut up, so that people could be judged by moral law and not by how much they believed a ridiculous tale.

In fact, the most moral thing a Christan could would be to bury the absurd tale of the resseruction, and all those idiot claims of hell, and in fact the entire Bible.

Then humans would be judged merely on what they did.

Doesn't that seem more fair? In fact, if it is more fair, then why did God even start that crap story in the first place?

Badfish

Because God wants to be known. And the story has been a central part of society. Almost everyone has heard the gospel, when was the first time you heard it?

No, because we are supposed to spread the gospel.


How wouldest thou fare with such a meanstreak?

On the surface it would seem fairer, but our works and our actions are not good enough and never have been since Christianity or Judaism has been around. Thats the teaching.

The Evil One

To get back to a less heated discussion...

Does this mean what I think it means?

According to you,

1) People who have never heard of Jesus go to hell or heaven depending on how moral their deeds in life were (despite the fact that they never heard the code of laws that they're being expected to live by).

2) People who have heard of Jesus and have faith that he was God incarnate, that he brings salvation, etc. etc., go to Heaven, regardless of their deeds.

3) People who have heard of Jesus and do not have faith in the above go to Hell, regardless of their deeds.

Is this correct?

If so, I have questions.

How is this justice?

Who could worship the kind of God who would institute this kind of fucked-up system?

How can being sent to heaven or hell be contingent on someone else's action in telling you about Jesus?

How do Christians justify telling people about Jesus, given that, according to you, if you tell a good and moral person who is a member of another religion about Jesus, there's a fair chance that person will go to Hell as a result, when otherwise they would have gone to heaven?

runningduck

According to my understanding of the Bible or at least how it was presented to me; you are "saved by grace." Or by faith in Jesus, as by only through him you are saved. The OT's Law was sapposedly invaladated when Christ came and thus we are now "saved by grace." You are NOT saved by law. I also understood it to be that we are unable to live perfect obeadance to the law (sinless) thus we need Christ. If we follow this reasoning through it seems that if you were born before Christ you were screwed. Or as Xians tell me "I am not to judge."

The Evil One

Yes runningduck, that is a common interpretation in Protestantism. I'm just questioning Badifhs because his interpretation seems to differ from this.

Starboy

Well yes, it is an offer you can't refuse. But what did you expect from the godfather.

Starboy

Krosis

temp closed for a split..