Sven

He claimed that is was regarded as flat and unmoving, not flat because it doesn't move.

"For the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, And He set the world on them."
Pillars make most sense if the Earth was flat.

"His lightning to the ends of the earth."
An end makes no sense on a spherical earth (I know, it's allegorical).

"Its rising is from one end of the heavens,
And its circuit to the other end of them;
And there is nothing hidden from its heat."
Also makes much sense for a flat earth, but few for a spherical one.

etc.

Jack the Bodiless

There are also references to the Hebrew flat-Earth cosmology which don't specifically say that the Earth is flat, but which nevertheless fit with the notion of a flat Earth covered by a solid dome to which the stars are attached.

Genesis mentions the Firmament dome, and Revelation talks of stars being knocked off it and falling to Earth (in one incident, one-third of the stars in the sky are knocked off, so this plainly isn't referring to meteorites as apologists claim).

There is also the Book of Enoch, which describes the Hebrew cosmology in some detail. Christians have decreed that Enoch is non-canonical, but unfortunately for them, Enoch is endorsed as a "true prophet" in the canonical Book of Jude.

Toto

The writers of the Bible really did believe that the earth was a flat plane resting on pillars.

Bede is right that the idea that Columbus had to argue against flat-earthism was a 19th century myth. However, it was not an anti-religious myth so much as an anti-creationist story, much as the Internet urban legend that calls for a recognition of a Biblical value of Pi. The story of Columbus arguing against people who thought that he would fall off the edge of the earth was specifically aimed at people who took Genesis as literally true, to show how silly it is to think that the Bible describes physical reality.

The moral of this story is that the Bible cannot be taken as a guide to science, so by the usual standards of religious apologists, you might say that there is some "higher truth" in this myth, right Bede?

Bede

Yep. For the first time ever Toto and I agree on something. The writers of Hebrew Bible almost certainly believed in a flat earth but this was never part of Christian belief who took their cosmology from the Greeks. SEF, I am right. Even popular books of the Middle Ages, Like Manderville's travels, state the earth is a sphere. But it is a highly prevalent myth and I'm not surprised you have seen it repeated all over. The reason ships stuck close to the the shore was that it was impossible to tell where you were otherwise, or if it was cloudy even which way you were heading (before the sea compass).

Yours

Bede

Bede's Library - faith and reason

gregor

I don't quite understand that part about the Xians taking their cosmology from the Greeks.

If you were a gentile who already had a Grecian cosmology, then I understand the issue. In such a case you understand the concept that Jesus fulfilled some of the OT prophesies, to give your deity some provenance.

If you originally were a good jew, you already had an OT background and accepted a flat earth. If you adopted Xianity, would you necessarily change your cosmology? Doubtful.

If you were a gentile with a Grecian cosmology and became a Xian, then I assume that you decided that this portion of the OT was allegorical or errant. If allegorical - on what basis does a gentile from Corinth have to say a rabbi in Jerusalem got his own text wrong? If our Corinthian was saying that it was scientifically wrong - aren't we getting a little close to heresy.

Net2004

Job 38:4

4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?

Net2004

For as E. J. Young noted, Isaiah 40:22 describes God as seated on the zenith, the highest point directly overhead. Thus the verse implies that earth's dwellers, all mankind according to Psalm 33:13, 14, are clearly visible from a very high point directly overhead. This imagery fits most naturally the conception of the earth below as a flat disc, not a globe. For if the earth were a globe, part of all mankind namely earth's dwellers in Australia, Argentina, South Africa, etc... could not be seen from a point directly overhead. One could force the issue by appealing to God's omniscience, but Isaiah 40:22 (as well as the other verses which mention God looking down) is focused on God's height above the earth; and his seeing all mankind is derived from that height. That phrase "the circle of the earth" in no way implies sphericity is confirmed by the fact that in Egypt this phrase was used to refer to the earth as a flat circular disc. So when interpreted within its historical and biblical context Isaiah 40:22 implies indeed that the earth is circular in shape but also that it is flat.

{This thread was merged into this one}

Magus55

Needless to say this is metaphoric, pointing to God having ultimate control over everything ( i seriously doubt God actually took a measuring tape to figure the dimensions of the Earth. For people so firmly against religion, the Bible, theism etc. you people sure do dwell on stupid things for the longest amount of time...

Lets assume the Israelites thought the Earth was flat. Big freakin deal. It won't change your view on the matter, nor will it change a Christians. So you've accomplished what besides wasting peoples time with the same arguments over and over and over?

King Rat

To point out the obvious Magus55, either they were taught incorrect info from your beloved book of fairy tales, or god is incorrect about the shape of the earth. Either choice is a tough one for a sola scriptura advocate.

Clivedurdle

http://www.ethicalatheist.com/docs/flat_earth_myth.html

Any comments on the links I posted on pages 1 and 2 of this thread? - they contain pretty comprehensive biblical references, plans of the flat earth, and discussion of Umberto Eco - he has taken up this debate in Baudolino!