Freethought & Rationalism Archive

JesusFollower · 07-10-2006, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WishboneDawn

The simplest explanation is OF COURSE that the authors of the gospel knew their Hebrew scriptures and wrote the stories of Jesus to make him fit with those prophecies.

To make Him fit all 300 prophesies?

That would be a miracle of it's own.

FatherMithras · 07-10-2006, 10:53 PM

Obviously, since the bible has repeatedly been shown to be in error, and since there's no reason to believe in gods, I'm going to have to respond no to jesusfollower.

FatherMithras · 07-10-2006, 10:55 PM

Quote:

To make Him fit all 300 prophesies? That would be a miracle of it's own.

You appear to lack a clear understanding of your own religion. It happens. I'd advise reading up on the experts responses to it. Basic biblical history and all that will show that jesus barely fulfilled any prophecies, and that he only fulfills them in made up stories with no actual evidence to support that they really happened! No actual evidence that jesus existed except for stories written decades after the fact? WOW!

WishboneDawn · 07-11-2006, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JesusFollower

To make Him fit all 300 prophesies?

That would be a miracle of it's own.

300?

And you have links so that I can see these 300, right?

Queen of Swords · 07-11-2006, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JesusFollower

He holds the atoms together

News flash, everyone! Each time atoms are split, scientists are overpowering god!

Quote:

and keeps everything in balance to sustain life here.

Except for when he doesn't, and millions of people die as a result.

Quote:

He is love and He is light.

And he is LSD.

Quote:

God is a spirit and not visible like the wind.

I wonder who Jacob was wrestling with, then.

Quote:

You see His cause and effects but not Him.

So when God told Moses "you will see my back parts", he was lying?

Quote:

I don't like religion either. It's man-made. I want a relationship with my Maker

I'm sorry that you never got to know your parents. Were you an orphan?

Jack the Bodiless · 07-11-2006, 04:33 AM

Interestingly, there doesn't appear to be a single verifiably-successful prophecy ANYWHERE in the Bible. At least, no Christian has yet presented me with a viable example. It would be reasonable to suppose that a Biblical prophet managed to get something right, even if by sheer chance... is the Bible supernaturally wrong?

Jack the Bodiless · 07-11-2006, 04:39 AM

Incidentally, JesusFollower: you don't seem to have grasped the fact that you are primarily addressing people who don't believe in Jesus or God, and who know with certainty that much of the Bible is bunk. The tone of your remarks indicates that this hasn't dawned on you yet.

JesusFollower · 07-11-2006, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherMithras

You appear to lack a clear understanding of your own religion. It happens. I'd advise reading up on the experts responses to it. Basic biblical history and all that will show that jesus barely fulfilled any prophecies, and that he only fulfills them in made up stories with no actual evidence to support that they really happened! No actual evidence that jesus existed except for stories written decades after the fact? WOW!

Jesus is a fact and historical figure. Any historian that has credibility can verify this one. The question is really 3 fold.

Was Jesus...

#1. A liar?
#2. A Lunatic?
#3. The Lord?

This is the question. There is nothing to disclaim his existance in the 1st. century. Even secular 1st. century Historians wrote about Him.

So who is He?

aperfectstranger · 07-11-2006, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JesusFollower

Jesus is a fact and historical figure. Any historian that has credibility can verify this one. The question is really 3 fold.

Was Jesus...

#1. A liar?
#2. A Lunatic?
#3. The Lord?

This is the question. There is nothing to disclaim his existance in the 1st. century. Even secular 1st. century Historians wrote about Him.

So who is He?

Hank?

BioBeing · 07-11-2006, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JesusFollower

Jesus is a fact and historical figure. Any historian that has credibility can verify this one. The question is really 3 fold.

Was Jesus...

#1. A liar?
#2. A Lunatic?
#3. The Lord?

This is the question. There is nothing to disclaim his existance in the 1st. century. Even secular 1st. century Historians wrote about Him.

So who is He?

At the end of the last page, I gave you (for the sake of argument at least) that Jesus existed, and that he did in fact utter those words.

In order to decide if he is fact a liar, lunatic or lord, we next need to ascertain the veracity of his words. If he did in fact say “the only way to God is through me” we need to know then

(a) is there a God
(b) can this God be reached through Jesus
(c) are there any alternate paths to this God.

As far as I am aware, we fail at step 1 here. No God, no need to use Jesus to get to him, because he isn’t there.

Thus, I would conclude that Jesus was either a liar, a lunatic, or possibly simply misguided. Its very hard to ascribe motive to someone no-one has seen for 2000 years, so I am hesitant to come right out and say he was a lunatic. But there again, you never know (and you cannot libel the dead :devil: ).

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07-10-2006, 10:53 PM	#52
FatherMithras Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 3,890	Obviously, since the bible has repeatedly been shown to be in error, and since there's no reason to believe in gods, I'm going to have to respond no to jesusfollower.

07-11-2006, 04:33 AM	#56
Jack the Bodiless Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: UK Posts: 5,815	Interestingly, there doesn't appear to be a single verifiably-successful prophecy ANYWHERE in the Bible. At least, no Christian has yet presented me with a viable example. It would be reasonable to suppose that a Biblical prophet managed to get something right, even if by sheer chance... is the Bible supernaturally wrong?

07-11-2006, 04:39 AM	#57
Jack the Bodiless Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: UK Posts: 5,815	Incidentally, JesusFollower: you don't seem to have grasped the fact that you are primarily addressing people who don't believe in Jesus or God, and who know with certainty that much of the Bible is bunk. The tone of your remarks indicates that this hasn't dawned on you yet.

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