shivalinga

joseph smith the founder of mormonism evolved
his theology over time, ending up with a doctrine
that is similar to the gnostic rosicrucians,
which was incorporated into freemasonry
as their theology.

smith actually joined freemasonry along with other
mormon leaders,only to be kicked out.

But the mormon doctrine of evolving into a god
and presiding over your own celestial kingdom,
along with mormon secret temple rituals being
copies of freemason rituals(wearing white robes,etc)
seems to have as it's foundation rosicrucian doctrine
which is claimed to have it's roots in ancient
egypt under pharoah Akhnaton,the ancient egyptian
priestly order of the "great white brotherhood"(they
wore white robes), and Hermes Trismegistus ,supposed
founder of Hermeticism and also being the egyptian
god thoth.

here is some interesting studies on this,

http://www.gnosis.org/jskabb1.htm

http://www.gnosis.org/ahp.htm

http://www.masonicmoroni.com/Links_Articles.htm

Marduk

I think it�s a coincidence. Claiming an ancient root gives you more credibility, and sounds cool as well. But I doubt if Joseph Smith ever heard of Akhnaton. I also doubt either the Mormons or Masons can claim an unbroken link of members or tradition going back anywhere near Biblical times. As more information became available about ancient Egypt and other mysterious beliefs of the past, they then were incorporated into modern cults. Very H. P. Lovecraft- like.

Gurdur

Obviously, the real answer is that Mormonism or Rosicrucianism are all inherited from the Great Vedic Empire.

All your bases are belong to us
--- Cthullu

shivalinga

marduk, read the articles, it's not a coincidence,
a few good books written by a mormon(since
writing his books he has been thrown out of the
church) history professor named Quinn

see this link for info
http://www.lds-mormon.com/ecomormon.shtml

Marduk

I�m still not convinced anyone of these groups ever heard of Akhanaten. What they knew about Thoth came from Greek tales of Hermes (they were both, among other things, scribes of the gods)
Translating Egyptian Hieroglyphs did not begin till the 1800�s when the Rosetta Stone was deciphered. And even in ancient Egypt very few people could read the Priestly texts, and the Priests liked it that way.
After the Greeks, Romans etc. took over Egypt no one was left to read or write hieroglyphs till Napoleon plodded through.
The Masons came into existence in the 1700�s and though they claim connections to the builders of Solomon�s Temple and the Knights Templar and anything else old and spooky, I think the connections are spurious at best. The only real connection I�m sure of is that they were all Freemasons in the sense that they were not slaves and they could cut stone.
The same with the Kaballa, from the Middle Ages with very tenuous connections to ancient times.
The whole nine yards of Masons, Mormons, Ancient Egypt, Knights Templar, Holy Grail, Theosophy and the Madam Balatsky crew, not to mention gnosticism, which the Church has been trying to stomp out for 1500 years, is all very interesting but all too contemporary. IMHO once the past was uncovered all sorts of oddballs tried to claim a piece of it.
"yeah! that's the ticket! Thoth! he was a friend of my great grandfather, taught him all about the Martians that built the Pyramids, that's how I met my wife Morgan Fairchild! yea. she was the Queen of Heaven. Isis!

shivalinga

when Akhnaton became incorporated into rosicrucian dogma
is not important, the rosetta stone was studied and translated
well before joseph smith died,anyways the point is that
mormon doctrine and rituals are basically that of the
various esoteric philosophies of freemasonery, which consists
of a mish mash of ancient gnosticism,medievel kabbalsitic magick ,christianity,judaism,hinduism, hermeticism(which
was itself a mish mash of some of these things and Greek
philosophies) which formed the philosophy of rosicrucianism,
the main philosophy of freemasonry.


there is no one dogma in freemasonry, they originally incorporated
a number of esoteric philosophies that were floating around europe at the time of freemasonry's conception,
and also newer philosophies have been incorporated since then.

they are rosicrucianism/hermeticism,kabbalism,gnostic
christianity,theosophy,and newer theories articulated
by Sitchin of an alien invasion (he translates
sumerian mythology as being the true account of
alien invasion and take over,genetic manipulation,
and breeding of human racial stocks for a race
or bloodline of alien/human hybrids with superior
ruling abilities,the t.v. show "the X-files"
was based on his theories.)

the various philosophies incorporated into freemasonry
are not an official dogma, there is no official dogma,
various people put forth and believe various versions
of the above belief systems ,they are all present
in some form or another in freemasonry .


there are various stories about the origins of freemasonry,
some say it evolved from mason societies,
but the freemason scoeity that exists today was
created in england,where there were no stone mason
guilds, into their mythology they incorporated various
popular esoteric ideas of the time,
including the Knights Templar legend, which before being
demolished was the single richest group in
europe, they were not persecuted in the British isles,
or iberia, leaving the remnants (who were themselves
remnants of various gnostic cults prominent in west europe
until the albigensian crusade wiped them out)
wealthy and influencial(pirate ships flying the jolly roger
were knights templar ships,that was their symbol)
and they were instrumental with the founding of
freemasonry.

the entire reason for the secret societies
was to retain control.



the royal and noble houses of europe had become
very frightened of the new weaponery, explosives,
rifles, etc.

previously counts,kings,barons,dukes, could be safe
behind a phalanx of soldiers bearing swords,crossbows,
shields,lances,etc.

no longer, the new weapons could be used from a distance,
pierce shields,or blow up castles.

since the nobility rules harshly,serfdom being unpopular
among serfs, they were in a bad position.

therefore they came up with a method of retaining control
of their countries without seeming to be the ones
in control.

they needed a mechanism to control the people and economies,
so two things were used, republics or rule by governments instead of royalty, and a method to insure secret control
of the governments.

Freemasonry was the answer, it put forth an ideology of
divine sanction and divine purpose of it's leaders and members, specifically that the biblical patriarchs
and king David and Jesus were all in a geneological
line that has been preserved, and that the royalty
and nobility were descended and empowered by divine
sanction.
then they created rituals,rules,dogma(from
a variety of esoteric sources that were popular
among the intelligentsia) and purpose.

the purpose was to control as much of government and
society as possible, the reasoning being that they were
on a holy mission.

the membership into freemasonry could only come about if you were invited,you couldn't just walk in.

the membership was given to the elites,government officials,
military leaders,polic leaders, economic leaders,
all across the spectrum of society the leaders were
invited to join, due to the presence of the elite
members of the noble houses and royalty who would
or could afford to decline an invitation ?

This was so effective that almost all the generals in the
american revolution under George Washington belonged
to freemason lodges, including washington.

http://watch.pair.com/mason.html#us

for the mason involvement in the founding of america.


recent attempts to outlaw mason affiliation
in British government.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/143258.stm

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...wyer/Lords.htm





"The committee feels that the link between Cosa Nostra and institutions is mostly through the "Massoneria" (freemasonry):

The fundamental terrain on which the link between Cosa Nostra with public officials and private professions was created and reinforced is the Massoneria. The Massoneria bond serves to keep the relationship continuous and organic. The admission of members of Cosa Nostra, even at high levels, in Massoneria is not an occassional or episodical one, but a strategic choice. The oath of allegence to Cosa Nostra remains the pivot point around which "uomini d'onore" (men of honor) are prominently held. But the Massoneria associations offer the mafia a formidible instrument to extend their own power, to obtain favors and privileges in every field: both for the conclusion of big business and "fixing trials", as many collaborators with justice have revealed.

Commissione Parlamentare d'inchiesta sul fenomeno della mafia e sulle altre associazioni criminali similari
(CPA: Commissione Parlamentare Antimafia)
Relazione sui Rapporti tra Mafia e Politica, Page 59
Roma, 1993


for more on the mafia mason european union
connection.
http://www.justresponse.net/DougalWatt3Sep02.html




history of rosicrucanism,the main source of freemason dogma.

http://smithpp0.tripod.com/psp/id6.html

shivalinga

mormons also subscribe to the anglo or british israel
philosophy,they also dominate the U.S. intelligence
agencies,and the republican party in general.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheNeu...es/message/207

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/109/story_10934_1.html


http://www.lds-mormon.com/wealth.shtml
hey they loved hitler to ,look

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheNeu...es/message/201



british israel stuff

http://www.constitution.org/scot/arbroath.htm

http://watch.pair.com/brit-israel.html

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/1997/ahc.html

more stuff on rosicrucian/freemasons

http://watch.pair.com/priory.html

wade-w

Shivalinga:

"Argument by link" is frowned upon here. I know this has been explained to you before, but I'll try again. You need to present your argument in your own words. Providing a links to websites in support of your position is fine, but you have to make some kind of substantive statement as well if you expect anyone to take you seriously.

wade-e
Moderator
GRD