Yuri Kuchinsky

Actually, there are hundreds of other gods/goddesses mentioned in the OT...

But this is really a separate issue.

The basis of what Loisy says is that Christianity was originally a Jewish sect, and I agree.

But how does this help us to locate the earliest Christian martyrs?

Yuri.

Amaleq13

Here

NOGO

You are being evasive.
The point is not that there are hundreds of other Gods mentioned in the OT. The point is that the Jews and then the Christians did not recognize any other God as real.

Again according to Loisy Christians inherited this intolerance of other Gods from the Jewish faith and this was an important element of the confrontation which resulted between Christians and the state.
You can acknowledge that Christianity was a Jewish sect or that 3 + 3 is 6 but you are not addressing the issue.
Loisy's point which I am rasing here is that this intolerance is part of the problem which led to persecution and martyrdom.

As for locating the first Christian martyrs ...
I answered all of your questions.
I have argued that martyrs may occur through other means than by a single example of the sect's founder.

You keep asking questions and offer no answers.

Yuri Kuchinsky

OK, so what's your point?

The Jewish origins of Christianity is yet another issue that the mythicists have problems with (some have even accused them of anti-Judaism in this connection)...

So why do you want to get into this issue now?

But are your answers really persuasive?

Lots of things might be possible, but not all of them are probable.

Yes, I keep asking questions. Is this not allowed?

Loisy provides the best answers AFAIAC, so just read his stuff.

As to what you wrote about the JWs, I have no serious objections to it.

Yours,

Yuri.

NOGO

So what it comes down to it is this.
You claim that Christian martyrs point to the HJ who was the first martyr.
When people point out that

a) Christians inherited an intolerant view "it's our God and no other God" which started the persecution as per Loisy which you recommend. And that this is sufficient to generate martyrs. All you answer is that this is possible but not probable.

b) JW probably had their martyrs which you acknowledge. It was a result of their particular faith which you acknowledge. Yet when one suggests that early Christians martyred themselves because of their faith your answer is: "possible, but not probable".

ok Yuri have it your way.
The only way to explain Christian martyrs is the HJ.
:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

Yuri Kuchinsky

But Loisy didn't say that, i.e. that this is what started the persecution.

IMHO what started the persecution was either that the early Christians agitated against Rome, or perhaps the internal Jewish disputes that got out of hand.

This sounds a bit too vague..

Well, I'm sure that's not the only way to explain Christian martyrs... So the onus remains on the mythicists to figure out a better way to explain Christian martyrs, than the conventional way.

Yours,

Yuri.

Jayhawker Soule

May I ask when? Also, how does accepting either conjecture lead inexorably to an historical Jesus?

Yuri Kuchinsky

YURI:
IMHO what started the persecution was either that the early Christians agitated against Rome, or perhaps the internal Jewish disputes that got out of hand.

This assumes a conventional chronology.

Lots of scholars think that Jesus spoke out against the Roman occupation.

As to the internal Jewish disputes, many scholars think that this is what Tacitus may have been describing when he mentioned 'Christus'.

But I didn't say that this leads inexorably to an historical Jesus.

Yuri.

NOGO

That is the very first subject in his chapter on PERSECTION.

If that is not what he wanted to say then he was blowing in the wind.

He is at least saying that this is one significant element.

NOGO

He says exactly that.
What follows is quoted from a section entitled

WHY WERE THE CHRISTIANS PERSECUTED?

From the book and chapter I mentioned earlier.

These quotes are given in summary in order to get a feel of what Loisy is talking about. I encourage whoever is interested to read the whole thing for himself. IMHO Loisy is definitely presenting the issue of the jealous God who would tolerate no other God before him as a major reason for persecution.