luvluv

Who can't?

Jagella

Yes, but like I said, people these days tend to frown on religious violence and hatred. It was not always so. During Biblical times and the middle ages, it was often considered “holy�? to inflict death and destruction in the name of one god or other. So as I see it, we are making at least some progress albeit on an ideological level.

In that case I’ll need to shout a whole lot louder. I absolutely hate injustice especially when deceit is used to inflict it, and I want every religionist to know that.

Jagella

Jagella

I engage in kind, selfless actions all the time and often because Christians were too selfish to help the person I helped.

I don’t need an “authority�? in my life because I’m assertive enough to find my own direction.

I love socializing, but I can also go it alone if necessary.

I often feel bad remembering the people who I may have hurt in the past, but rather than let guilt get me down, I use the lessons of the past to guide my life in the present.

If the latest scientific discoveries overthrow the “old ideas,�? then those old ideas no longer have merit.

I am definitely intolerant of religionists’ attempts to distort science, at least in the public schools. Nevertheless, I must allow people to believe whatever they wish despite how stupid those beliefs may be. Finally, since when does religion “question�?? Does religion not use intimidation to coerce belief? It does.

Jagella

Jagella

Having such traits does not mean that religious people do not experience psychological problems. I know a schizophrenic woman who might be described as a “fully-functioning, productive, responsible, generous member of her community.�? Nevertheless, she is mentally ill. She is a Christian, too, by the way.

No, a person is pathological as a result of displaying symptoms of mental illness, and many religious people—while engaging in some religious act such as prayer—are behaving virtually identically to a person we might see as emotionally unbalanced.

Finally, the “ridiculous notion�? I posted at the beginning of this thread has gone virtually untouched by its critics. Is that list truly representative of religious people and their actions? Yes or no? Why or why not? Let’s not let our emotions cloud our thinking here, and let’s address the issues.

Jagella

TheBigKahoona

In answer to your question, I can't help but disagree with most parts of your list.

This is called, by most people's definitions, being nice. When I was younger I saved up my money to buy my brother a Christmas present. I could have used that money for my own enjoyment but instead I "made sacrifices" in order to afford the GI Joe he wanted. I could have used the money for my own enjoyment and "wellbeing" but I didn't because I love my bro. I don't see anything unhealthy in this, do you?

I recieve guidance from a pastor like most Christians. However, most of what Iv'e learned about how to live my life and most of the choices I have made have come from my own reading of the scriptures.

You are quite right here. Many Christians are fat bigoted stupid idiots. However, I believe that this does not come from any religious belief they may have but instead from their natural character. I don't think religion plays any real part in their belief about people who are different from them.

I don't want to split hairs here, but I would argue that Christianity is about the freedom from guilt rather than pure shame.

I don't know what you are really talking about here. What do you mean by "beneficial adventures"?

seebs

I don't think it was representative, and in at least one or two cases, it's pathological only if taken to extremes; for instance, self-sacrifice is normally considered socially desirable up to a point, and rarely frowned on.

The key is that we distinguish between mere self-destruction and self-sacrifice; accepting costs to help others is not pathological.

Philippe*

I would say fundamentalism can lead to a form of mental disorder, but I am not an expert. I really think some have mental problems though we all have some to some different points. I have seen that especially for the old fanatic fundies, some are embittered by life, they seem totally brainwashed by religion they have built their life on this and have lost all mental plasticity, it seems beyond hope.

Philippe

Jagella

Under normal circumstances, our charitable acts may actually benefit us if they serve some useful social function. Nevertheless, if taken to an extreme, selflessness can be harmful indeed. This extreme selflessness is often part of the religious lifestyle especially in monasticism.

I would hesitate to take any advice from unknown people that lived thousands of years ago in an obviously primitive and savage culture. My ability to direct my own life is a result of questioning anything I read including the Bible. As a result, if I read something that seems wrong I will not believe what’s being asserted, and I can therefore lead a safer lifestyle and be more emotionally stable.

I’ve thought about the prejudices demonstrated by religious individuals, and I honestly don’t know for sure why religion and discrimination often go hand in hand. I speculate that it may have to do with the writings in the Old Testament. The Israelites described themselves as “God’s chosen people,�? for example, and this belief may have resulted in the Jews seeing themselves as something akin to Hitler’s “master race�? (the irony!). In any case, I use my own self-direction, tolerance, and flexibility to avoid hurting others who are different from me. I believe I’m more emotionally stable as a result of this ability to have social interest in others.

I suppose it’s one of the many paradoxes of Christian beliefs: Is a person guilty of “sin�? and deserving of an eternity in hell? Are all his or her efforts to do good but “filthy rags�?? Or is that person “made in the image of God�?? I suppose the difference between these two views may be reconciled in the idea of being “saved.�? However this “saving�? may occur, the Christian might then feel free of his or her guilt over whatever sins he or she may have committed. In any case, I’m sure that such feelings vary with the individual Christian.

A “beneficial adventure�? is something that you would not normally do because it may seem risky, but you do it anyway because you perceive the possibility of some benefit. Leaving your hometown to find a job in a city far away could be an example of a beneficial adventure.

Jagella

Jagella

Some of the emotional disorders I’ve seen in religious individuals include delusion, depression, manic depression, schizophrenia, and even suicidal tendencies. Although one need not be religious to experience these kinds of illnesses, they seem rather prevalent in religious believers, and the beliefs the religious person holds appear to be related to the emotional disorder. I know a woman who is a Christian and is also schizophrenic. She has told me that she’s seen visions of demons. To me, such a person exemplifies the obvious relationship between religiosity and mental illness, and I know of many more examples of this relationship.

Jagella

Jagella

I suppose a self-sacrificing person realizes that sacrifices and risks are not the same thing, and therefore there is no contradiction between making sacrifices and taking risks. Moreover, the traits listed for an emotionally healthy person at the beginning of this thread are not necessarily all found in an emotionally stable person. Many of them probably would be evident in the behavior of a sane individual with maybe an exception or two.

Jagella