FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-14-2010, 12:40 PM   #81
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bordeaux France
Posts: 2,796
Default

Acts 5 5-6 :
5. And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it.
6. The young men got up and covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him.

So, Peter had some "young men" near him. I understand that they "helped" Ananias when he fell down and breathed his last...
And I understand why "great fear came over all who heard of it" : [because the "young men" were still here, and willing to repeat the miracle, if necessary].
Huon is offline  
Old 08-14-2010, 10:02 PM   #82
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Falls Creek, Oz.
Posts: 11,192
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huon View Post
Acts 5 5-6 :
5. And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it.
6. The young men got up and covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him.

So, Peter had some "young men" near him. I understand that they "helped" Ananias when he fell down and breathed his last...

And I understand why "great fear came over all who heard of it" : [because the "young men" were still here, and willing to repeat the miracle, if necessary].
Was the story of Ananias and Sapphira invented for that time when the Christians had coercive power, commanding great fear - a time when the servants of Jesus stood up to fight in his name and became arranged by cohorts?

Hypothetically how late could the NT canon actually have been authored in order to be consistent with all the available "evidence"?
What is the upper boundary? Nicaea?
mountainman is offline  
Old 08-14-2010, 10:09 PM   #83
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Falls Creek, Oz.
Posts: 11,192
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chili View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman View Post


Can anyone authoritatively advise whether or not it is a historical fact that all of these "early traditions" presenting this additional informational data (about the additional "Travels of the Apostles" including their glorious and heroic martyrdoms, etc) not contained in the NT Canon are sourced without exception in the NT "Gnostic Gospels and Acts".
Of course it is ....
The figure (name) of Ananias was used by the authors of Gnostic Gospels and Acts - it at least appears in the Syriac Acts of Philip. Here Ananias blasphemes against the "Christ" (in a sotto voice it seemed) ...
May Adonai recompense thee, and the Christ on whom thou callest,
who is become dust and lies in Jerusalem, while thou livest
and leadest ignorant men astray by his name.
As a result of this blasphemy Ananias was seized by a powerful christian angel under the control of the Apostle Philip, and tied by his big toes to the top of the mast of a boat in gale force winds. He was later kicked to death by the Jews in the Synogogue of Carthage, and finally resurrected by the Apostle Philip with the assistance of a sick ox.

I think Ananias also appears in other "Gnostic Gospels and Acts".
Also, I wonder if the Gnostic authors also made use of Sapphira?
The stories presented by the Gnostic Gospels and Acts represent
an academic mish-mash of the stories and characters presented in the canon.
mountainman is offline  
Old 08-14-2010, 10:48 PM   #84
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Blue planet
Posts: 2,250
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julio View Post
[Acts 5:1-11]
I have confronted Christians with this crime against two innocent members of Peter's Primitive Church.
They tell me they were killed by the Holy Spirit.
It's not possible!
And there is enough internal evidence elsewhere against such an accusation.
I need to resolve this problem satisfactorily.
Can you please help?
Thanks.
Quote:
Acts 5
Ananias and Sapphira
1Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet.
3Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."

5When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

7About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8Peter asked her, "Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?"
"Yes," she said, "that is the price."

9Peter said to her, "How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also."

10At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.
Just another bible bullshit story. BBS.
Voice of reason is offline  
Old 08-15-2010, 06:36 AM   #85
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Bernardino, Calif.
Posts: 5,435
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huon View Post
So, Peter had some "young men" near him. I understand that they "helped" Ananias when he fell down and breathed his last...
That could be suspicious, if there are any real history behind the story.

It's fascinating how many skeptics treat this particular incident as if it must have really happened.
Doug Shaver is offline  
Old 08-16-2010, 09:35 AM   #86
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: midwest
Posts: 565
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transient View Post
Are your christian friends as foul-mouthed as you are?
I don't have any Christian friends. I was raised an atheist. We didn't buy into the nonsensical notion that some words are obscene. I talked like this when I was a child. I have had fake intellectuals and fake Christians tell me I shouldn't but have never been convinced why I shouldn't.
David Henson is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:45 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.