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Old 05-05-2013, 08:28 AM   #41
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[
Good, very good, I like any society which is blessed with a healthy tradition.
And blessed they are! Nice word to have used so they can drink beer together instead of argue religion all day and go to war in the end.

This is where theology is the enemy of prosperity and the cause of destruction to tear down each other instead of the enemy within. This enemy would be our human condition that really is our best friend during the involutionary Yang stage of life, = pre menopauze to be sure, that is followed by the evolutionary Yin period that a theologian will never know anything about, as there also theology is thing of the past.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:23 PM   #42
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The key words above are "compel " and "force".

The question is under what circumstances would it be acceptable (if at all) that people are compelled or forced to enter this God's kingdom?

Do we have before us a holy writ that substantiates forced conversion?

No.
No religion justifies forced conversion; we do not have a holy writ used by religious managers to force conversion, to my knowledge.

Forced conversion is a political act to be ignored, downplayed, or simply denied by the religious officials much later.

The foundations of each of the centralised state monotheistic cults of barbaric antiquity (Egyptian, Hebrew, Persian, Christian, Islamic) were founded in an empire which had recently been conquered by a powerful warlord. To what extent did these warlords force the populace into a single unified religion? This is just a preliminary remark,

In the case of Christianity, we have a holy writ that basically says to the pagans that a new kingdom is being proclaimed and everyone is forced into it. The evidence we have from the 4th century, when Christianity was legalised by the (Christian) Emperors, suggests that pagans were tortured and executed because of their "religious fraud".

Therefore I see Luke 16:16 as another political instrument within the NT by which the original Nicaean oppressors justified their forced conversion of the pagan Roman empire to a Christian Roman empire. A centralised monotheistic state religion required conformity and unification under the one banner - in this case the Greek New Testament and Bible codices, the high technology state of the art way to store data in the 4th century.


The Good News of God's Kingdom Is Proclaimed to the pagans
and Everyone of the pagans Is Forced into it.








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Old 05-14-2013, 12:59 AM   #43
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No.
No religion justifies forced conversion; we do not have a holy writ used by religious managers to force conversion, to my knowledge.

Forced conversion is a political act to be ignored, downplayed, or simply denied by the religious officials much later.

The foundations of each of the centralised state monotheistic cults of barbaric antiquity (Egyptian, Hebrew, Persian, Christian, Islamic) were founded in an empire which had recently been conquered by a powerful warlord. To what extent did these warlords force the populace into a single unified religion? This is just a preliminary remark,

In the case of Christianity, we have a holy writ that basically says to the pagans that a new kingdom is being proclaimed and everyone is forced into it. The evidence we have from the 4th century, when Christianity was legalised by the (Christian) Emperors, suggests that pagans were tortured and executed because of their "religious fraud".

Therefore I see Luke 16:16 as another political instrument within the NT by which the original Nicaean oppressors justified their forced conversion of the pagan Roman empire to a Christian Roman empire. A centralised monotheistic state religion required conformity and unification under the one banner - in this case the Greek New Testament and Bible codices, the high technology state of the art way to store data in the 4th century.


The Good News of God's Kingdom Is Proclaimed to the pagans
and Everyone of the pagans Is Forced into it.








εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia
You only post propaganda: your personal exaggerated interpretations of tiny fragments and you do that in mindless repetitive manner.

Your posting on Luke has been already answered.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:36 AM   #44
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Mountainman, please forgive my rude reply of this morning.

If you are looking for a text that was misused in a big way, then the one verse in the NT about two swords being enough is the best choice.

Luke 22:38
The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That's enough!" he replied.

This is how it has been misused:


UNAM SANCTAM
Bull of Pope Boniface VIII promulgated November 18, 1302

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Bon08/B8unam.htm

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We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal. For when the Apostles say: 'Behold, here are two swords' [Lk 22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but sufficient.

Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword is in the power of Peter has not listened well to the word of the Lord commanding: 'Put up thy sword into thy scabbard' [Mt 26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered for the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest

Unam Sanctam must be the sickening interpretation of the Holy Spirit.

There is a much better interpretation .
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:05 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Iskander View Post
Mountainman, please forgive my rude reply of this morning.

If you are looking for a text that was misused in a big way, then the one verse in the NT about two swords being enough is the best choice.

Luke 22:38
The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That's enough!" he replied.

This is how it has been misused:


UNAM SANCTAM
Bull of Pope Boniface VIII promulgated November 18, 1302

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Bon08/B8unam.htm

Quote:
We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal. For when the Apostles say: 'Behold, here are two swords' [Lk 22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but sufficient.

Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword is in the power of Peter has not listened well to the word of the Lord commanding: 'Put up thy sword into thy scabbard' [Mt 26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered for the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest

Unam Sanctam must be the sickening interpretation of the Holy Spirit.

There is a much better interpretation .
I think he is 'maintaining' here and promoting the Inquisitor's job, probably against those mountain men who wanted their money back maybe already then.

Salvation is from God and everyone is forced into it points at metamorphosis that is prior to religion itself, and is wherein the TOK as our faculty of reason must be overthrown by the TOL from where the Immanent Will is the force who set this giant iceberg in motion towards this event as shown here.http://www.melodylane.net/ianwhitcomb/twainpoem.html

The upshot here is that how bigger the Titanic the bigger the collision will be wherein the remains are harvested tenfold in reward for the effort they made in building it first. The Church knows this and so promote sin among believers and have the confessionals in place to renew their effort in this and will send them West again on the way out, to do it again and again with more enthousiasm and vigor each time, until they finally say "No more, oh no more" and their the now 'good shepherd' will come to their rescue himself.

So now the ambition of the Church is to built bigger Titanic's each time so that their mansions will be bigger as well, and please note that they must crash first in that dramatic collision event.

From this it is easy to see that Catholics are just opposite to Christians and always will be that way.

So the 'double edged sword' is dual in spiritual and material, sure, but if we live in the material world it will be in sin that we are co-creator with God to be harvested later as God in our own right, and it is in this wisdom that all roads lead to Rome since there is no salvation outside the Church.

There is no argument here because they hold the 'deep water' inside the mystery of faith and if anyone ever gets there it will drag him to Rome by the sheer force of Truth, even if scrapping and fighting against them all the way there. It is either that or he will die with an unresolved mystery alone on his own.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:44 PM   #46
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All is cool Iskander. And thanks for the reference to the Papal Bull archive. I will gather up all the "SWORD" references for good measure in a subsequent post.




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