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Old 07-15-2007, 09:11 AM   #81
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The myth probably grew around a charismatic preacher going by the name of Yeshuah Ben Joseph. Apparently there was no shortage of itinerant prophets getting around at that time....Simon Magus, etc...
I don't see why this is probable. The earliest christian writings do not depict him as an itinerant prophet, a charismatic preacher, a wandering cynic nor a sage, nor as the son of Joseph.

No doubt there were plenty of Standing One, messiah, and son of god wannabes running around in the 1st century. But why were there so many? Was it just a trend "hey look! that guy is getting free food just by repeating well known words of wisdom" - maybe. But it seems to me that most trends are rooted in something firmer. It seems to me, the best explanation for all these prophets, is that the idea of god on earth was firmly established before. This suggests the texts came first, and the prophets 2nd.
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:53 PM   #82
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I have not known or heard anyone having a virgin birth, also thinking your part or son of a god, and the all the miracles he "supposed" performed!! Just too unrealistic to believe it all that took place and was real.
And what is even more unbelievable, is that Jesus fulfilled all the false prophecies in the OT.

The virgin birth was taken out of context, the entire chapter 14 of Isaiah does not refer to Jesus at all, yet Jesus was claimed to be born of a virgin to fulfill prophecy in Isaiah 14:12.

In my opinion, the character called Jesus was fabricated primarily from verses taken out of context from the Septuagint and from the historical writings of Josephus.

It is not mere co-indence to me that Josephus mentioned John the Baptist, Herod, Pontius Pilate, the fall of the Temple of Jerusalem, the crucifixion of three acquaintances of whom one survived and the geography and topography of Galilee, yet never mentioned Jesus.

The Jesus described in the NT never existed, all similarities to any person living or dead, is purely coincidental. It is a grave error to claim that some other Jesus, not described in the NT, is the historical Jesus.
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:00 PM   #83
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Here is my atheistic twist.
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Why did Jesus not exist?
the believers acts on the motivational thoughts that makes Jesus appear alive to them now as a relation they have based on how they interpret the texts about Jesus portray him. A lived interpretation.

So the question seems to miss what is important. It is the jesus they relate to now that is alive for them.
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Old 07-15-2007, 02:52 PM   #84
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Here is my atheistic twist.
Quote:
Why did Jesus not exist?
the believers acts on the motivational thoughts that makes Jesus appear alive to them now as a relation they have based on how they interpret the texts about Jesus portray him. A lived interpretation.

So the question seems to miss what is important. It is the jesus they relate to now that is alive for them.
How would you rephrase the question wordy,
so that the question is more direct?

Best wishes,

Pete
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Old 07-15-2007, 03:20 PM   #85
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I'd like to know why you think Jesus didnt exist? No historical evidence (which the writings outside the NT are considered forgeries for some reason) and if you do believe he existed why do you not believe he is the son of God?
Pete, that is a very direct question. Several of them too.

What I mean is that they kind of address side issues.

Ok it all depends on the intent of the OP. What is important?

To me as an atheist the important thing is to find a solution to the current situation.

Theists use religion as a powerful political strategy to get voters. They talk about values as if atheists have no values.
To me that is an abuse. State and religion should be held separate.

So for me the important question from a theist to an atheist would be.

What in atheist opinion is bad with religious faith and what could you accept to live with. What would or how could a friendly co-existence look like between us who have faith and you atheists who personally don't support such faith in God.

or

Given that scientists find if likely that the propensity for getting converted to a faith will be with us for a very long time, hundreds of years coming generations, how are we to organize a friendly co-existence?

or

What in atheists opinion goes on in the brain of a theist when they believe in God? What is it that make the theist vulnerable to such faith while the atheist seems to have no such needs. Is it just random good luck on the atheist part or hard work to not fall for the temptation.
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Old 07-15-2007, 04:40 PM   #86
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The historical core to Santa Claus if I remember correctly was an ancient Turkish religious figure.
Not Turkish, but a Greek from Anatolia. The Turks did not invade the region until many centuries later.
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Old 07-16-2007, 03:41 AM   #87
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In my opinion, the character called Jesus was fabricated primarily from verses taken out of context from the Septuagint and from the historical writings of Josephus.
How do you fit Paul's writings into this idea?
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Old 07-16-2007, 05:44 AM   #88
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The myth probably grew around a charismatic preacher going by the name of Yeshuah Ben Joseph. Apparently there was no shortage of itinerant prophets getting around at that time....Simon Magus, etc...
The only evidence for the existence Jesus is within the gospels. Outside sources there is Josephus, which many scholars admit was added on by the earlier Christians to strengthen their tale. There is a large amount of history written about events in Jesus's time in Palestine. But not a word of any historical figure named Jesus.
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Old 07-16-2007, 05:48 AM   #89
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Prophets and messiahs were a dime a dozen at that time,both before and after the so-called Christ myth.
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Old 07-16-2007, 12:24 PM   #90
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The only evidence for the existence Jesus is within the gospels.
What about Paul's letters? :huh:
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