Zwaarddijk

This only demonstrates that the author(s) of the narrative at Gen 21:22-32 were aware of these words having the same consonants at the time the story was authored.

spin

I think if BDB had found old Semitic sources for שבע oath, they wouldn't have advocated that it was derived from seven. They usually do a good job of cognate recognition.

tanya

While the three canaries are chasing the cat's tail, I was reading, with great interest (thank you spin!) the story in Gen 21:1-21, i.e. the story of how Abraham, the unfaithful, the adulterer, diddled the young maiden cleaning their spacious accommodations, and then kicked Haggar out, with nothing more than a pouch of water, because their son, Ishmael, was playing, as children always do, with Abraham's newest son, Isaac, born from the "legitimate" wife, Sarah, his sister.

How very appropriate: Rape and incest, in the same male fantasy story.

This story is however, interesting in that it raises the question of the oldest female to give birth, in the modern era. We have documented births from women in their 50's, at least one in her 60's, and one in her 70's.

Diminished cardiac output, alone, ought to be sufficient to enable our recognition that Sarah would have given birth, age 100, only with great improbability.

Osteoporosis, a tragedy at any age, becomes even more pronounced, among Centenarians. The likelihood of a female surviving childbirth, beyond age 30, in that era, is very improbable, given the lack of hygiene, poor diet, and inadequate medical facilities.

Chili

Without reading this verse let me suggest that also Elizabeth was old and did conceive John. This inevitably rendered Zechariah speechless as an answer to his prayer (= no more prayers are needed with destiny now in the making where so doubt is no longer part of the act, = to cf with Peter's mother-in-law who did not feel quite the same, and so 'this' Jesus helped her up and so 'doubt' was present again in every which way (funny Mark to call doubt to order again to show the absense of Nazareth as deserter himself).

Now notice that his John was always known as Jesus' favorite disciple and first introduced as Mary's son by Jesus from the cross. So we now have John and Jesus as bosom buddies, wherein John was born from the netherworld or TOL, and Jesus from the present age in the TOK.

Both are personifications, obviously, wherein John must decrease and Jesus must increase to so rationalize the thousand year reign, which really amounts only to the conversion of Reason to Pure Reason without emotion, for which then the senses are finally pierced in evidence of that = the reality that Stoics try to reach on their own.

This may all be side-track but does explain why osteoporosis is not a problem at all, especially not since only a 'tiger' (Nietzsche here) will get to the oasis on his own, which then is why Joseph was said to be a [wily] carpenter with 12 shepherds on the go.

And I would be careful with the rape and incest too. Just look at Joseph here who might have been a good Jew through and through, but was upright as Jew and not a hunchback in it, and dared to say NO to 'it' even as adult here now.

Zwaarddijk

I am satisfied with BDB as a source.

stephan huller

Interestingly enough I cited this article in another thread. Might be useful here

http://www.academia.edu/1213350/The_...ime_Periods_I_

Sheshbazzar

Translation; 'I looked up the word 'numerology', and realized I had fucked up.'

And pissing on about the origins or meanings of one word is not going to in the least affect the validity nor the accuracy of that mathematical material and information that is the essence of what was posted by me in Post #21.

I ask you. Who else has ever drawn your attention to the peculiarities of the mathematics of the fathoms in Acts 27:28?
Or suggested to you that it was not simply a random figures but was intimately connected to how the ancients calculated time?

I'll go a bit further, but I'll not give you the answers. It is also the key figure for determining of the precise length of each of the three STANDARD 'measuring reeds' that are referenced within the Bible. (both 'Old' and 'New' Testaments)

There is a very solid reason that hundreds of Bible verses deal with linear measurements, particularly rectilinear objects, starting with Noah's ark, extensively in Ezekiel 40 onward, (note particularly Eze 43:10) Acts 27:28 as I mentioned, and clear into the measuring in Revelations 21. There is a theme.

Measure, geo-metry, and time are intimately related in the Bible. The stories presented within these Books are not about what you think they are about.
The 'measuring reeds' are for the measuring of distance, but also of seconds, of minutes, of hours, of days, weeks, months, years, and Jubilees, as well as the timings of the equinoxes and the tzbaoath of the heavens precession's.
It has perhaps never crossed your mind that The NAME when written in its most exacting ancient form is a geometrical formula.

Which one of you educated and wise men can accurately fashion and mark off the demarcations of a 'measuring reed' that can account for all of these?

Can you lay your home made 'measuring reed' upon the earth and confidently declare to the last millionth of an of an etzebah what is its length?

There is an entire field of study here that you have turned a blind eye to while pursuing fables.

Zwaarddijk

NO, I did not fucking screw up. You're ascribing great significance to arithmetical coincidences, and by analogy, it's fairly reasonable to consider that a kind of numerology. Thing is, if you look for mathematical coincidences *anywhere* you'll find them.

stephan huller

Why are you wasting your time with these people? I bet they could debate the color of the sky if they thought it would advance their agenda

Sheshbazzar

No doubt in my mind that we will find out about that in due time.