Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Gullwind · 03-02-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

Very nice points to the poster above me.

I have just been doing some more thinking and realized something.

Religious people say we have a soul and this is what makes "us" us and not some other person.

however, when it comes to the subject of mentally handicapped people, no religious person says, "Well God made him with a defective soul." They always cite science and say, "Well his brain is not right."

So in one case it's the brain but in perfectly normal people, it's a soul? :huh:

That was one of the things that always bothered me about Christianity, but I never really let myself think about it.

At one time, I thought I knew the meaning of life - to decide for ourselves. That was the reason we were here. But mentally handicapped people often cannot make fully informed choices, so how did they fit in to that meaning?

I can't say that was a major factor in my deconversion, but it was a huge relief when I realized that problem went away after I no longer believed.

ETA: Half-life, I know what you're going through. A lot of us have been where you are, looking out into what you have always seen as a vast, dark, empty abyss. I hope you will find, as so many of us have, that it isn't nearly so dark and empty as we were told. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk.

juergen · 03-02-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

Very nice points to the poster above me.

I have just been doing some more thinking and realized something.

Religious people say we have a soul and this is what makes "us" us and not some other person.

however, when it comes to the subject of mentally handicapped people, no religious person says, "Well God made him with a defective soul." They always cite science and say, "Well his brain is not right."

So in one case it's the brain but in perfectly normal people, it's a soul? :huh:

That's an interesting point, I had never thought about it like that.

I've started wondering about the soul too. If what we are is a unique mix of our parents' genes, and if our personality style comes from our parents, there's not much that a soul would actually be good for. An unnamed, indistinct mass of non-mass, hiding away in some other plane, needed to be saved at all costs.

xaxxat · 03-02-2008, 02:35 PM

Half-Life, why are all your threads so bipolar?

chrisengland · 03-02-2008, 03:03 PM

What does bipolar meen?

Sheshbazzar · 03-02-2008, 03:07 PM

Cut H-L some slack, give him some space, he is doing his best to finally deal with the issues.

Allied35 · 03-02-2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

But to me one of the most startling things I thought about WAS the fact that God "didn't exist" on Earth from ages 13-29!

Where does he go?!?! He vanishes! There's no evidence anywhere in the world written down of where he might have been.

So, how can any person say Jesus never sinned?

Heck, the disciples in his story are never portrayed as ever sinning either.

How can anyone claim that this God wanted to save us so bad, but did NOTHING of record from ages 13-29?

What was he doing? Sitting on a rock waiting to "vague preach" for 3 years when he became 30?

Where's his age 5-10 years as well?

We have NOTHING!

Do you guys think this can be used as one of the main evidences AGAINST the God of the bible?

I CAN NOT believe I am thinking like this.

I am surprised that you know so much about Bible prophecy, but so little about fundamentalist Christianity. I was a fundamentalist Christian for over 30years. You ought to know that fundamentalist Christians believe that might makes right, reference Romans chapter 9, and that God is perfect, for example, reference Deuteronomy 32:4, 2 Samuel 22:31, and Psalms 18:30. Everything that a perfect God does would by definition be right. Of course, there is not any credible evidence that God is perfect, and that any possible God must by necessity be perfect.

I really don't understand Johnny Skeptic. He usually posts the same stuff in all threads and is obviously anti-bible(rightly so) and then here comes a chap that has the guts to admit he is having serious doubts about Christianity and Johnny starts throwing bible passages at the guy!?!? WTF?

I don't think you're being very helpful, Johnny.

xaxxat · 03-02-2008, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Cut H-L some slack, give him some space, he is doing his best to finally deal with the issues.

He played this same game last year...

Skeptic_v.1 · 03-02-2008, 03:43 PM

Hope I'm wrong...I have been plenty of times...but something smells fishy. I've only been around this site for a few days, but H-L has made a lot of post all in favour of Christianity and using the bible to prove the bible...etc...

Then today, he is asked a simple question about the existence of God and he is ready to convert....

With all his other arguments ( and very recent at that ) doesn't the conversion seem quit sudden? :worried:

maybe I'm am just being a skeptic as always...

GenesisNemesis · 03-02-2008, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

I started thinking about this after one of my co-workers asked me a question. I will reveal this question at the end of the post.

Here is why I may be close to deconversion:

OK, picture this.

We have all seen what the view of Earth is like from a plane? Everyone looks like ants. Now, picture our solar system and universe as a wooden board stretching out widely. Now, imagine BEYOND the universe, (or board if you will), we see God in his realm of existence.

Now, in order for me to stay a Christian, this is what I must believe:

God chose one part of the world in about 900 B.C. to start Genesis.

He developed a closeness with Jewish people for some strange reason. He picks Israel as his "favorite nation" for unknown reasons instead of the whole world.

He writes down prophecies in books not labeled "prophecies of the messiah" but instead "hidden" in people's songs to God or ramblings.

God then wants to save everyone, so he comes to earth in early first century to just one place - Jerusalem and a little surrounding areas. He doesn't see a need to have too much of his childhood written about. His birth is there, then a few little childhood stories and that's it.

Then his existence vanishes on earth from ages 13-29 and then his life picks up again at age 30. What was the all important God doing for these missing 17 years? How could he have been so caring and important?

Then at age 30 he says some vague preaching for 3 years to only a select group of people in a select part of the world, gets crucified in only one part of the world, shows up to just a small group of people, then tells these people "Gotta get out of here see ya! Oh preach the Gospel by the way to all the earth."

He then vanishes, leaving hardly any historians writing about all his miraculous deeds, and there's wars in his name for the past 2,000 years and still no sign of him coming back.

Does this make ANY SENSE to ANYONE?

and yet I have been believing this my whole life!!

I see no reason why God couldn't have come to Earth as man in all the nations, be crucified, and then the story would be known throughout all nations, instead of him picking a random little spot to preach to 12 men and gain a little following and hoping they would spread it.

Ask yourself. if ANY of you guys were God, would this be the way you want to save humanity? 3 years of vague teachings with hardly anything about your life growing up? Why couldn't Jesus have been healing as a 5 year old? That would've made for so many more believers.

Now, wanna know the one question my friend asked me that made me think like this?

he said, "Of course we know that god exists.................in the Bible. The question is, does god exist OUTSIDE of the Bible?"

My eyes were opened when he said this and I immediately started thinking of what the Christian God is ACTUALLY portrayed as.

(NOTE: I put this in this forum because it deals with just reading the Bible to come up with this conclusion.)

I don't know if I am fully deconverted yet, but it seems to me that idea of worshipping such a clumsy god makes no sense anymore.

What do you guys think?

You've started to think! I'm so proud of you!

Seriously, though, good work. I always thought you were a fundie trolling the boards, but it seems we've actually made some progress. Just hang in there, don't get too emotional about it. There's seriously a better world waiting for you out there- the world of rationality. Talk more to your co-worker about it!

GenesisNemesis · 03-02-2008, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic_v.1

Hope I'm wrong...I have been plenty of times...but something smells fishy. I've only been around this site for a few days, but H-L has made a lot of post all in favour of Christianity and using the bible to prove the bible...etc...

Then today, he is asked a simple question about the existence of God and he is ready to convert....

With all his other arguments ( and very recent at that ) doesn't the conversion seem quit sudden? :worried:

maybe I'm am just being a skeptic as always...

Aren't most deconversions "sudden"? Just a thought. Mine certainly was (but I wasn't a Christian, I was a New-Ager).

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03-02-2008, 02:35 PM	#23
xaxxat Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Space Station 33 Posts: 2,543	Half-Life, why are all your threads so bipolar?

03-02-2008, 03:03 PM	#24
chrisengland Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol' England Posts: 2,678	What does bipolar meen?

03-02-2008, 03:07 PM	#25
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Cut H-L some slack, give him some space, he is doing his best to finally deal with the issues.

03-02-2008, 03:43 PM	#28
Skeptic_v.1 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Southeast USA Posts: 66	Hope I'm wrong...I have been plenty of times...but something smells fishy. I've only been around this site for a few days, but H-L has made a lot of post all in favour of Christianity and using the bible to prove the bible...etc... Then today, he is asked a simple question about the existence of God and he is ready to convert.... With all his other arguments ( and very recent at that ) doesn't the conversion seem quit sudden? :worried: maybe I'm am just being a skeptic as always...

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