Freethought & Rationalism Archive

show_no_mercy · 11-13-2009, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solo

Guys, there is no doubt in my mind, that the name Jesus was the personification of gnosis, one acquired through contemplation and interpretation of the "cosmic" peaks of ecstatic transports. The issue is here is though, how did the earliest group agree on that name if, as it appears, they argued just about everything else ?

Jiri

Jiri,

I wish I knew the answer to that question. It has been pointed out that the name Jesus would have appeared numerous times in the LXX and that this may have provided the impetus for the name, itself.

In actuality, I would consider this simple issue to be one of the better reasons to consider a case for an historical founder, by that name.

Jesus is probably the most important name in the LXX besides Moses. Jesus is a prophet like Moses or maybe some saw him as more important than Moses since "[YHWH's] name is in him" (Exodus 23:21), and Jesus was also the first high priest when the 2nd temple was dedicated upon the Jews' return from exile.

Odd that "Jesus" or "Joshua" only starts becoming a popular name after the exile. Where are all of the famous prophets/Judeans/Israelites named "Jesus" prior to the exile? Is it because the Jesus name (or Jehoshua) itself was an invention of the Judaean/Persian elites who crafted the story once back from the exile?

Clivedurdle · 11-13-2009, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 21Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice;(Y) do not rebel against him,(Z) for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.
22"But if you carefully obey his voice and do all that I say, then(AA) I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.

23(AB) "When my angel goes before you and brings you(AC) to the Amorites and the Hittites and the Perizzites and the Canaanites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, and I blot them out, 24you shall(AD) not bow down to their gods nor serve them,(AE) nor do as they do, but(AF) you shall utterly overthrow them and break their(AG) pillars in pieces.

Umm, what has this to do with Jesus?

dog-on · 11-13-2009, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Quote:

Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 21Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice;(Y) do not rebel against him,(Z) for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.
22"But if you carefully obey his voice and do all that I say, then(AA) I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.

23(AB) "When my angel goes before you and brings you(AC) to the Amorites and the Hittites and the Perizzites and the Canaanites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, and I blot them out, 24you shall(AD) not bow down to their gods nor serve them,(AE) nor do as they do, but(AF) you shall utterly overthrow them and break their(AG) pillars in pieces.

Umm, what has this to do with Jesus?

Maybe that was the angel's name as well! :huh:

show_no_mercy · 11-13-2009, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Quote:

Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 21Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice;(Y) do not rebel against him,(Z) for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him.
22"But if you carefully obey his voice and do all that I say, then(AA) I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.

23(AB) "When my angel goes before you and brings you(AC) to the Amorites and the Hittites and the Perizzites and the Canaanites, the Hivites and the Jebusites, and I blot them out, 24you shall(AD) not bow down to their gods nor serve them,(AE) nor do as they do, but(AF) you shall utterly overthrow them and break their(AG) pillars in pieces.

Umm, what has this to do with Jesus?

Who is the person that leads the Jews into their promised land and kicks the ass of all of the native peoples there?

dog-on · 11-13-2009, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by show_no_mercy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Umm, what has this to do with Jesus?

Who is the person that leads the Jews into their promised land and kicks the ass of all of the native peoples there?

Joshua... aka Jesus... :notworthy:

show_no_mercy · 11-13-2009, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

Quote:

Originally Posted by show_no_mercy

Who is the person that leads the Jews into their promised land and kicks the ass of all of the native peoples there?

Joshua... aka Jesus... :notworthy:

Of course. It only makes sense in Hebrew that "[YHWH's] name is in him" when you realize that Joshua (or Jehoshua) has YHWH's (Jehovah's) name in his name.

Hebrew illiterate, Greek speaking people would have thought that the name "Jesus" was just special without knowing why.

"Why does god say that his name is in Jesus?"
"Who knows... it's a mystery"
"It must be a really special name... maybe the most important name ever!"

Thus if anyone is going to be a savior, their name had better be Jesus.

dog-on · 11-13-2009, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by show_no_mercy

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

Joshua... aka Jesus... :notworthy:

Of course. It only makes sense in Hebrew that "[YHWH's] name is in him" when you realize that Joshua (or Jehoshua) has YHWH's (Jehovah's) name in his name.

Hebrew illiterate, Greek speaking people would have thought that the name "Jesus" was just special without knowing why.

"Why does god say that his name is in Jesus?"
"Who knows... it's a mystery"
"It must be a really special name... maybe the most important name ever!"

Thus if anyone is going to be a savior, their name had better be Jesus.

Well I suppose I now have to cross off the last good reason for a case for the historical founder of Christianity needing to be a Jew named Jesus.

Doesn't really leave me with much to go on...

Clivedurdle · 11-13-2009, 12:32 PM

But Joshua and Jesus were not Angels!

dog-on · 11-13-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

But Joshua and Jesus were not Angels!

Are you sure? I heard that Jesus could fly!

Clivedurdle · 11-13-2009, 12:37 PM

Is the reference to an angel here evidence that this is written post exile, once they had been in contact with Zarathustran thinking?

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11-13-2009, 12:32 PM	#48
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	But Joshua and Jesus were not Angels!

11-13-2009, 12:37 PM	#50
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Is the reference to an angel here evidence that this is written post exile, once they had been in contact with Zarathustran thinking?

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