Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Solo · 10-01-2011, 09:32 AM

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Originally Posted by aa5874

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Originally Posted by Solo

....Whether the disorder was actually known to physicians in antiquity is a moot point. But there was a physician slightly later than Paul by the name of Aretaeus of Cappadocia who first pointed to the special relationship between 'mania' and 'melankholia' (Greek for 'black bile')....

Whether or not your claim about Aretaeus of Cappodocia is true there is NO source of antiquity that show that Saul/Paul had epilepsy.

Even if it was available, the medical view of Paul's condition would clash with a theological interpretation of his experiences.

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Epileptic seizures are NOT caused by BRIGHT lights and do NOT cause BLINDNESS which last for THREE days.

Why do you talk rubbish, aa ? Do you know anything about mental health events ?

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It is completely UNHEARD of that a GROUP of people could suffer from EPILEPTIC attacks SIMULTANEOUSLY.

The 'serial and synchronous' occurence of peak mental events is a standard literary device in the gospels/Acts and many stories are plotted in the simultaneous experience of the psi phenomena. Other than the Damascus event, there is the descent of the spirit on the congregation in Acts 2, the mass experience of the spirit in Samaria in Acts 8 after Peter and John lay thier hands on converts. The marriage at Cana in John 2 is constructed as a group experience of the euphoric Spirit, and in the Transfiguration, the internal rendering of Christ ( based on Paul's 2 Cr 3:18) also falls in this category (in the constraction of Matthew and Luke - not Mark !)

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The story of Saul/Paul BRIGHT light conversion is mere fiction.

It is fiction to you because you do not understand the experiences which are symbolized as external events.

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The Pauline writers did NOT claim they had epilepsy and you appear to be CONVENIENTLY IGNORING the WRITTEN statement in Acts.

I am not 'conveniently ignoring' anything. I am just not obssessed about the 'fact-fiction' boundary of what is written in Acts, the way you are. I understand that the symbolic events relate to real inner experiences which greatly puzzled people who had them after they recovered their 'close-to-normal' thinking faculties.

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It was NOT only Saul/Paul that HEARD the voice and SAW the Bright Light.

In ACTS, EVERYONE SAW the LIGHT and HEARD the VOICE.

See above. Also in Acts 9:7, the companions of Paul hear the voice but see no-one. They are made witnesses to the light in Acts 22 (and 26) by Paul speaking in first person singular. He contradicts the narrative of chapter 9 in 22saying that his friends heard nothing.

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Acts 9

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7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man...

You are SIMPLY WRONG and fail to admit your error. You NOW appear to be IRRATIONAL and is compounding your error.

If you take your outbursts to be the product of rational mind, then of course - I must be appearing to you as irrational. No mystery there, aa.

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Written statement in Acts have been presented yet you continue to SPOUT your unsubstantiated flawed opinion about Saul/Paul.

Epilepsy is NOT CONTAGIOUS.

Again, you are misreading the literary intent of the synchronized plurality of the 'Jesus' experiences. See above.

Jiri

Yukon · 10-01-2011, 10:57 AM

The Bible, like the Koran, is a ficticous book of "fairy" tales.

aa5874 · 10-01-2011, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solo

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Epileptic seizures are NOT caused by BRIGHT lights and do NOT cause BLINDNESS which last for THREE days.

Why do you talk rubbish, aa ? Do you know anything about mental health events ?

You don't know what you are talking about I have OBSERVED persons while they were having epileptic seizures.

1. It was NOT caused by any bright light.

2. There was NO blindness at all.

3. The epileptic heard no VOICES.

4. The epileptic spoke to NO one.

5. I heard NO VOICE and saw no bright light.

6. NO person OBSERVING the epileptic seizure showed any symptoms of having epileptic seizures at the same time.

7. Persons with epileptic seizures do NOT CONVERSE or have any conversation with others while under the attack.

Quote:

It is completely UNHEARD of that a GROUP of people could suffer from EPILEPTIC attacks SIMULTANEOUSLY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solo

....The 'serial and synchronous' occurence of peak mental events is a standard literary device in the gospels/Acts and many stories are plotted in the simultaneous experience of the psi phenomena. Other than the Damascus event, there is the descent of the spirit on the congregation in Acts 2, the mass experience of the spirit in Samaria in Acts 8 after Peter and John lay thier hands on converts. The marriage at Cana in John 2 is constructed as a group experience of the euphoric Spirit, and in the Transfiguration, the internal rendering of Christ ( based on Paul's 2 Cr 3:18) also falls in this category (in the constraction of Matthew and Luke - not Mark !)....

Your post is BS. I don't know that the NT is history. Please get a credible book if you want to talk about history.

I use the NT to show LIES, MYTH, and FICTION.

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The story of Saul/Paul BRIGHT light conversion is mere fiction.

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Originally Posted by Solo

...It is fiction to you because you do not understand the experiences which are symbolized as external events.

Well, I can't really help you if you BELIEVE Fiction is history.

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The Pauline writers did NOT claim they had epilepsy and you appear to be CONVENIENTLY IGNORING the WRITTEN statement in Acts.

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Originally Posted by Solo

..I am not 'conveniently ignoring' anything. I am just not obssessed about the 'fact-fiction' boundary of what is written in Acts, the way you are. I understand that the symbolic events relate to real inner experiences which greatly puzzled people who had them after they recovered their 'close-to-normal' thinking faculties....

Epilepsy is NOT a theological experience. I have OBSERVED people who had epileptic seizures and they don't believe in Jesus either before or after the seizure.

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It was NOT only Saul/Paul that HEARD the voice and SAW the Bright Light.

In ACTS, EVERYONE SAW the LIGHT and HEARD the VOICE.

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Originally Posted by Solo

....See above. Also in Acts 9:7, the companions of Paul hear the voice but see no-one. They are made witnesses to the light in Acts 22 (and 26) by Paul speaking in first person singular. He contradicts the narrative of chapter 9 in 22saying that his friends heard nothing......

Well, why are you using UNRELIABLE sources to claim "Paul" had epilepsy?

You are CONFOUNDING yourself.

How can you tell which story is true?

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Acts 9

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7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man...

You are SIMPLY WRONG and fail to admit your error. You NOW appear to be IRRATIONAL and is compounding your error.

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Originally Posted by Solo

...If you take your outbursts to be the product of rational mind, then of course - I must be appearing to you as irrational. No mystery there, aa.

...

Well, you ADMIT "Paul" contradicted himself in Acts 9 and 22 and still use the very CONTRADICTORY story to claim Paul had epilepsy.

You appear to be irrational.

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Written statement in Acts have been presented yet you continue to SPOUT your unsubstantiated flawed opinion about Saul/Paul.

Epilepsy is NOT CONTAGIOUS.

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Originally Posted by Solo

...Again, you are misreading the literary intent of the synchronized plurality of the 'Jesus' experiences. See above.

Jiri

I mis-read NOTHING. I SHOWED YOU EXACTLY what is found in the KJV BIBLE.

Acts 9.7

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And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

We have a CONTRADICTORY FICTION story not any epileptic episode.

Yukon · 10-01-2011, 11:14 AM

I thought you were discussing RON PAUL. My apologies.

DoubtingDave · 10-01-2011, 12:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Yukon

I thought you were discussing RON PAUL. My apologies.

You could have read the op.

arnoldo · 10-01-2011, 03:05 PM

Irenaus doesn't specify what Paul's specific ailment was however he does mention it in an apparent attack on so called gnostics. My guess is that Irenaus felt that "gnostics" were portraying themselves as prideful due to their revelations therefore Irenaeus gave the example of Paul's humility in Book V of Against Heresies:

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The Apostle Paul has, moreover, in the most lucid manner, pointed out that man has been delivered over to his own infirmity, lest, being uplifted, he might fall away from the truth. Thus he says in the second [Epistle] to the Corinthians: "And lest I should be lifted up by the sublimity of the revelations, there was given unto me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me. And upon this I besought the Lord three times, that it might depart from me. But he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee; for strength is made perfect in weakness. Gladly therefore shall I rather glory in infirmities, that the power of Christ may dwell in me."(1) What, therefore? (as some may exclaim) did the Lord wish, in that case, that His apostles should thus undergo buffering, and that he should endure such infirmity? Even so it was; the word says it. For strength is made perfect in weakness, rendering him a better man who by means of his infirmity becomes acquainted with the power of God. For how could a man have learned that he is himself an infirm being, and mortal by nature, but that God is immortal and powerful, unless he had learned by experience what is in both? For there is nothing evil in learning one's infirmities by endurance; yea, rather, it has even the beneficial effect of preventing him from forming an undue opinion of his own nature (non aberrare in natura sua). But the being lifted up against God, and taking His glory to one's self, rendering man ungrateful, has brought much evil upon him. [And thus, I say, man must learn both things by experience], that he may not be destitute of truth and love either towards himself or his Creator.(2) But the experience of both confers upon him the true knowledge as to God and man, and increases his love towards God. Now, where there exists an increase of love, there a greater glory is wrought out by the power of God for those who love Him.

2. Those men, therefore, set aside the power of God, and do not consider what the word declares, when they dwell upon the infirmity of the flesh, but do not take into consideration the power of Him who raises it up from the dead.

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10-01-2011, 10:57 AM	#32
Yukon Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 278	The Bible, like the Koran, is a ficticous book of "fairy" tales.

10-01-2011, 11:14 AM	#34
Yukon Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 278	I thought you were discussing RON PAUL. My apologies.

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